Eclipse - One of the Few Worth Risking Blindness For

Eclipse - One of the Few Worth Risking Blindness For Hot

SuperflyTNT     
 
0.0
4537   0

I know this review is over a year late, but since Charlie Theel mentioned that I was an apologist for it, so I thought I'd make it official.

Ah, Eclipse, the first really, truly 4X game developed in analog format that is worth playing... what can I say? Oh, "Twilight Imperium 3, the king of 4X," you say? Fuck that game. That isn't 4X, it's like going to a political fundraiser.  No, that's not a real 4X game, really, because it's missing a key element: beating the shit out of one another as a core mechanic. Seriously, Asmodee made very few mistakes with Eclipse, because it is absolutely one of the best space-based board games that I've ever played. It can run a bit longer than it should with six players, but at four players, it is the perfect balance of pure white-hot aggression and intrinsically contemplative play.

I'm starting to think that the best new games are Ameurotrash™, or rather, American-European hybrid games, thanks to games like CycladesMage Knight TBG, and this. Eclipse is absolutely outstanding in its strategic flexibility with regard to exploration, combat, and resource management. The variable player powers are great and perfectly balanced, although I think one of the only flaws in the game is that they took the easy way out and had several cool and unique races to choose from, but then they have a bunch of human factions that are identical in all but color.

Eclipse BitsThe art is beautiful, and the components are excellent as well, being colorful and attractive, aside from the players' ships which are all the same model unless you go drop a day's wages buying the "Ship Pack One" expansion that is basically just replacement ships that are all color-unique. What I think is amazing is that with as much shit as is going on in the game, they've managed to express a great deal of information in the most lightweight way, making the game very easy to learn and understand thanks to minimal but imminently understandable iconography.

Another strength is the combat system, which does use dice, and is probably the most realistic space combat board game I can think of because of the absolutely mind-bending amount of luck you need to successfully destroy any one ship with another, sans upgrades. Basically, you need to roll a six to kill an enemy ship. This can be modified up or down based on a deep and wide technology tree, but the best way to kill shit is to put more guns on ships; the hard part is that ships only have so many hard-points, and the bigger the gun, the bigger the power source required to drive it, so in order to field a bunch of big guns, you first need to research bigger power sources. On top of that, the tech tree is populated by a chit-pull system and is limited to the available chits, so if you buy that big power plant, everyone else will plot to buy up all of the weapons off the market, denying you the ability to field them. It's utterly brutal and I adore it.

If there's any weakness in Eclipse, it's that it focuses very heavily on being an efficiency engine game with a veneer of 4X, albeit a heavy veneer. What you do, and when you do it, has much more effect on your success in managing a star-faring empire than anything else. You have to gain money to take actions, and to do that, you have to take over planets that produce money, or upgrade able planets with stations that produce money. Thus, you have to be efficient in when you do things or you'll overextend your nascent civilization and die a slow death of attrition. There's a razor's-edge balance between expansion and technology development that must be realized and managed, or you're going to end up either killed off by opponents or simply end up running in circles, losing to more efficient players.

Luck also has a huge part to play in the game, because if you end up exploring tiles that don't produce money, you're kind of in a bind. You can trade minerals and research points for money, which helps you from being hobbled like this, but the exchange rate is normally three-to-one, so it's not really all that viable. To add to this, research is used to upgrade your tech, and minerals are used to build ships, so trading those commodities off for money, and by extension, action points, can really hurt you in the long-term.

Eclipse Ship Pack BoxAll things considered, though, this is easily the best space conquest game I've ever played. I like it far more than any iteration of Twilight Imperium, and it's much more streamlined than Starcraft. The length of the game is also much, much shorter than those games, which is an added bonus, because you literally can play two or three games in the same time that it takes to play one game of either of them. It's a great game, and while I personally love it, some of the Circus felt it was a little too dry for their tastes, and they didn't like that the ships were all the same aside from the color. I disagree that it's dry, but I do agree that it is kind of shitty to have to spend $50.00 extra dollars to get a box full of ships when they really could've just put them in the box in the first place. To be fair, it does come with some extra technologies  and some new tiles, but really, it's  all about the ships.

Eclipse Rise of the AncientsFinally, there's another expansion that I've played with, Rise of the Ancients, and I find that it, on balance, is not great. It takes away a lot of the player versus player combat and makes the game much more focused on exploration and economy versus true conquest. Basically, it pumps the board full of the indigenous non-player race, forcing you to spend most of the time working on killing and exploiting them versus going after opponents. I wouldn't recommend it to anyone who likes player interaction, because it diminishes it quite a bit. It's worth mentioning that there's an iOS version available for iPad only, and it's an incredible treatment of the game.

 

Why Eclipse Eclipses So Many Games In The Genre:
- Relatively fast-playing turns and a timer mechanic keep this from becoming a 5-hour game
- The art is very good and the components are excellent
- Loads of different strategies keep this from getting stale, even after many plays
- Lots of factions with unique powers keep the variety level high
- It's a true 4X game in every meaningful way

Why You Might Be Blinded By Eclipse:
- The ship pack expansion is a money grab; unique ships should've been included
- The efficiency engine aspect of the game can be frustrating
- Luck plays a huge role in exploration

Overall:
Eclipse is an outstanding 4X space empire game that really should be in almost every group's collection. Its blend of strategy, luck, and resource management make it a very interesting, engaging design that keeps you wanting more.

Rating:
4.5/5 Stars

Learn more about Eclipse at the Asmodee page here: http://us.asmodee.com/ressources/jeux_versions/eclipse_2.php

Eclipse - One of the Few Worth Risking Blindness For There Will Be Games
For more information, reviews and articles on Eclipse click here
Log in to comment
Posted: 02 Nov 2015 07:50 by Msample #213884
Msample's Avatar
If ever there was an award for component ergonomics/design, this game would be the top dog. The amount of information they efficiently convey in the tiles/player aid cards is brilliant, allowing you to play the game and not constantly look shit up.
Posted: 02 Nov 2015 07:53 by hotseatgames #213886
hotseatgames's Avatar
Maybe it was the crowd I was playing with, but I played this game once and it could not have been more boring.
Posted: 02 Nov 2015 07:54 by charlest #213887
charlest's Avatar
Fantastic game, great review. Thanks for the name drop.
Posted: 02 Nov 2015 07:59 by stoic #213889
stoic's Avatar
Great review! -1 for no expletives.
Posted: 02 Nov 2015 08:02 by SuperflyTNT #213891
SuperflyTNT's Avatar
You didn't read it:

"Fuck that game."
"beating the shit out of one another"
"kind of shitty to have to spend $50.00 extra dollars"

Now, to be fair, there were no homophobic slurs, racist diatribes, or rape jokes. I will try harder next time. How about this:

A little boy & a little girl are playing doctor behind a barn. The little boy's mom comes around the corner, and catches them. She grabs her son by the arm, and drags him to the house. Spanking him the whole way. When they get back to the house she sits him down, and says to the little boy "don't be messing' with those little girls vaginas. They got teeth down there, and they'll bit off anything that get near it. "

Well the little boy grows up still thinking this. He gets to high school, and falls in love. He goes to college with her, and eventually asks his girl friend to marry him, despite still being a virgin. On their wedding night, they go on their honeymoon suite. They start foolin' around, but as soon as it gets too hot, he rolls over and turns off the light. His wife says " hey, heyy, hey, just a minute aren't we going to have sex? " He says "no, my mom done told me about you women, ya'll got teeth in y'alls vaginas."

She says "No i don't! You're insane! If you don't believe me turn on the light and look . " So, he turns on the light and she shows him. She says "well " he says "No wonder you a'int got no teeth, look at the shape your gums are in!"
Posted: 02 Nov 2015 08:12 by SuperflyTNT #213893
SuperflyTNT's Avatar
hotseatgames wrote:
Maybe it was the crowd I was playing with, but I played this game once and it could not have been more boring.

I keep hearing you say that about games. The question becomes, "IS IT THEM, OR ME?"

;)
Posted: 02 Nov 2015 08:47 by Stonecutter #213895
Stonecutter's Avatar
For the life of me I don't understand how this game isn't beloved on this site.

Yes it's a slightly-Eurofied 4X, sure, it's not the TI3 lite a lot of people wanted, no there's not as much backstory.

But it's such a rock fucking solid game.

It has one of the best, most intuitive, most fun to play with economic systems in any game. It has one of the best mini games I've ever played in the ship building, it has one of the best if not the best weight to rules complexity balances ever.

It has amazing combat, with tons of dice chucking and one of the best dice mechanisms, where it's not just "5s and 6s hit hur hur hur" but every single pip you roll is better than the pip before it, IE, 3s are better than 2s, 4s are better than 3s.

It also manages to feel big and different and convey a story without any kind of action or event deck, which is pretty amazing.
Posted: 02 Nov 2015 09:13 by Columbob #213896
Columbob's Avatar
Besides Loter, does anyone here really hate this game? It's gotten glowing reviews from Michael, Charlie and Pete.

We've played it a few times recently and we'll soon be adding Ancients to the mix. It's a great game and MUCH easier to get onto the table than TI3. Can't say I wouldn't rather play TI3, but at least Eclipse plays in a single evening and its economy engine is much more intuitive and fast than TI's planet counting. Also, the customized ships RULE.
Posted: 02 Nov 2015 09:22 by RobertB #213899
RobertB's Avatar
Some of the Rise of the Ancients Rare Technologies (I think that's their term for it) fixes Eclipse's overpowered missiles problem, somewhat. The expansion is definitely cool, in that you can mix and match all of the new features.
Posted: 02 Nov 2015 09:23 by charlest #213900
charlest's Avatar
Columbob wrote:
Besides Loter, does anyone here really hate this game? It's gotten glowing reviews from Michael, Charlie and Pete.

We've played it a few times recently and we'll soon be adding Ancients to the mix. It's a great game and MUCH easier to get onto the table than TI3. Can't say I wouldn't rather play TI3, but at least Eclipse plays in a single evening and its economy engine is much more intuitive and fast than TI's planet counting. Also, the customized ships RULE.

Maybe I'm making a bigger deal out of than it is but when talking about it in the past I remember several people despising it. I didn't realize this many people actually like it around here.
Posted: 02 Nov 2015 09:39 by hotseatgames #213903
hotseatgames's Avatar
SuperflyTNT wrote:
hotseatgames wrote:
Maybe it was the crowd I was playing with, but I played this game once and it could not have been more boring.

I keep hearing you say that about games. The question becomes, "IS IT THEM, OR ME?"

;)

Ha! Definitely my fault, for playing with Euro-loving weirdos.
Posted: 02 Nov 2015 09:43 by SuperflyTNT #213905
SuperflyTNT's Avatar
RobertB wrote:
Some of the Rise of the Ancients Rare Technologies (I think that's their term for it) fixes Eclipse's overpowered missiles problem, somewhat. The expansion is definitely cool, in that you can mix and match all of the new features.

I think the fix is to simply remove missiles from the box. Ancients tends to de-value combat quite a bit, making it more like a multiplayer solitarie game.

Funny enough, i think RotA is a direct high five to the euro-lovers who complained it wasn't Euro enough
Posted: 02 Nov 2015 09:45 by bfkiller #213906
bfkiller's Avatar
Josh Look also despises it. I think the majority of posters here, though, enjoy it. I certainly do.
Posted: 02 Nov 2015 10:08 by jeb #213911
jeb's Avatar
Yep, confirmed ECLIPSE lover here too. It's on my Best of All Time List, even. Josh and Matt can't stand it, and they were pretty vocal on the site and ran the podcast for a while, so it may have seemed the whole site was down on it. But not so.

Agree with all the sentiments above. It's complicated, but very well presented. It doesn't make combat the Only Thing That Matters like a lot of 4x games do and it rewards both careful and daring play depending on your risk tolerance.
Posted: 02 Nov 2015 10:33 by charlest #213915
charlest's Avatar
SuperflyTNT wrote:
RobertB wrote:
Some of the Rise of the Ancients Rare Technologies (I think that's their term for it) fixes Eclipse's overpowered missiles problem, somewhat. The expansion is definitely cool, in that you can mix and match all of the new features.

I think the fix is to simply remove missiles from the box. Ancients tends to de-value combat quite a bit, making it more like a multiplayer solitarie game.

Funny enough, i think RotA is a direct high five to the euro-lovers who complained it wasn't Euro enough

I don't think RotA necessarily makes it more solitaire-like. You have the black hole things that warp you to other sectors, letting you get in behind people and mess them up. You also have new techs like the Anti-Matter splitter which let you inflict more destruction. Stuff like the carrier ability that lets you carry fighters aboard cruisers/dreadnaughts incites more fighting as well.

Lastly, the Rho Indhi Syndicate is probably the most vicious race in the game and best suited to rushing people early.
Posted: 02 Nov 2015 11:02 by zelurs #213921
zelurs's Avatar
I just have to pop in to say that Asmodee didn't have any input regarding Eclipse. Eclipse is the love-child of Touko Tahkokallio and originally published by Lautapelit.fi. Asmodee is just the game's american publisher.
Posted: 02 Nov 2015 12:22 by repoman #213929
repoman's Avatar
I won't argue that the game's interface is rock solid.

But add me to the group that dislikes this game.

For reasons, you'd have to dig out the discussions from the archives. The worst was that the last two turns seemed to take forever.
Posted: 03 Nov 2015 05:12 by MattDP #213990
MattDP's Avatar
Another Eclipse fan here.

There are, however, a few issues that stop it being an all time great for me. The biggest is that once everyone understands how to build the best ship designs, the game effectively becomes a race to grab the necessary technologies before anyone else does.

I also find it a colossal pain to teach. I'm not sure why this is. A lot of moderately complex games (TI3 is a good example) have a kind of "click" moment where things fall together and you can start predicting how the game is going to run. Eclipse isn't like that. It's not enormously complex, but it does seem to be enormously unintuitive.
Posted: 03 Nov 2015 05:28 by JonJacob #213991
OldHippy's Avatar
I love Eclipse as well, but I don't think it's comparable to TI:3 not because it's a worse game but because it just isn't the same game. It seems like it because at first glance they appear to be doing the same thing... but how they get there is so different I don't feel like they scratch each others backs at all. I find it a little depressing that everyone wants to compare them pretty much any time it comes up. I think it hinders how we think about Eclipse because too often people don't talk about the game itself.. but rather how it lives up to TI:3, either by 'killing' it or by not living up to it's precedent. Both of those approaches do the game and it's designer a disservice. In fact I kind of feel this way about most games. I prefer they be judged on their own merits without having to resort to the familiar shorthand or 'X game in 20 minutes". I used do it all the time but these days I prefer to see someone attempt to just explain it and let me make comparisons in my head if I so desire.

When I teach guitar I will show kids major and minor chords pretty early on. At that point they usually have no pre-conceived idea of what a chord should be so I resist telling them cliche's like "major chords are happy and minor chords are sad." because I don't want them to limit how they think musically and would prefer to to let them associate these things in a way that's appropriate for them.

Eclipse is great, but it's not TI:3, and the reverse could be said as well.
Posted: 03 Nov 2015 06:02 by Legomancer #213992
Legomancer's Avatar
Eclipse is a game I wish I liked more than I do. A lot about it is great, but there are also some stupid things I can't get past. You can throw a scrub ship into a battle knowing it will get destroyed right away and still may pull a VP tile more valuable than someone who really invested in the battle. The endgame, where people are just buying stupid techs they don't care about for VPs is athematic and boring. There's just a lot of gamey bullshit around it. I'm not interested in TI3 but I'd love a smaller, shorter game and really hoped Eclipse would do it for me, but it doesn't.
Posted: 03 Nov 2015 07:32 by SuperflyTNT #214004
SuperflyTNT's Avatar
Legomancer wrote:
Eclipse is a game I wish I liked more than I do. A lot about it is great, but there are also some stupid things I can't get past. You can throw a scrub ship into a battle knowing it will get destroyed right away and still may pull a VP tile more valuable than someone who really invested in the battle. The endgame, where people are just buying stupid techs they don't care about for VPs is athematic and boring. There's just a lot of gamey bullshit around it. I'm not interested in TI3 but I'd love a smaller, shorter game and really hoped Eclipse would do it for me, but it doesn't.

I've developed a theory about this VP thing: Sometimes, actionable intelligence is more vauable than a weapon and its wielder. So, you lose X ship and crew, but before they died, they gave you valuable intel on enemy troop strength, weapons loadout, etc. YES, I know it's open information, but this is the best I can come up with to make it make sense.
Posted: 03 Nov 2015 07:49 by charlest #214009
charlest's Avatar
SuperflyTNT wrote:
Legomancer wrote:
Eclipse is a game I wish I liked more than I do. A lot about it is great, but there are also some stupid things I can't get past. You can throw a scrub ship into a battle knowing it will get destroyed right away and still may pull a VP tile more valuable than someone who really invested in the battle. The endgame, where people are just buying stupid techs they don't care about for VPs is athematic and boring. There's just a lot of gamey bullshit around it. I'm not interested in TI3 but I'd love a smaller, shorter game and really hoped Eclipse would do it for me, but it doesn't.

I've developed a theory about this VP thing: Sometimes, actionable intelligence is more vauable than a weapon and its wielder. So, you lose X ship and crew, but before they died, they gave you valuable intel on enemy troop strength, weapons loadout, etc. YES, I know it's open information, but this is the best I can come up with to make it make sense.

You know, it doesn't have to make sense. Why can't a game reward you for doing crazy awesome shit like making a suicide run into an enemy fleet and exploding like hot confetti in the dark cold of space?
Posted: 03 Nov 2015 08:18 by SuperflyTNT #214012
SuperflyTNT's Avatar
Says the guy who changed shivving inmates into robot prisoners to appease the masses of pussies.... LMAO
Posted: 03 Nov 2015 08:37 by charlest #214014
charlest's Avatar
SuperflyTNT wrote:
Says the guy who changed shivving inmates into robot prisoners to appease the masses of pussies.... LMAO

Hey it's not published yet, so who knows. I'm way slacking on this.
Posted: 03 Nov 2015 08:50 by Stonecutter #214015
Stonecutter's Avatar
JonJacob wrote:
I love Eclipse as well, but I don't think it's comparable to TI:3 not because it's a worse game but because it just isn't the same game. It seems like it because at first glance they appear to be doing the same thing... but how they get there is so different I don't feel like they scratch each others backs at all. I find it a little depressing that everyone wants to compare them pretty much any time it comes up. I think it hinders how we think about Eclipse because too often people don't talk about the game itself.. but rather how it lives up to TI:3, either by 'killing' it or by not living up to it's precedent. Both of those approaches do the game and it's designer a disservice. In fact I kind of feel this way about most games. I prefer they be judged on their own merits without having to resort to the familiar shorthand or 'X game in 20 minutes". I used do it all the time but these days I prefer to see someone attempt to just explain it and let me make comparisons in my head if I so desire.

When I teach guitar I will show kids major and minor chords pretty early on. At that point they usually have no pre-conceived idea of what a chord should be so I resist telling them cliche's like "major chords are happy and minor chords are sad." because I don't want them to limit how they think musically and would prefer to to let them associate these things in a way that's appropriate for them.

Eclipse is great, but it's not TI:3, and the reverse could be said as well.

I'd say TI3 and Eclipse are both 4X games, where as TI:3 is a more a DoaM (A super trumped up Axis and Allies if you will) and Eclipse is a Civilization game (A super streamlined advanced civ.)
Legomancer wrote:
Eclipse is a game I wish I liked more than I do. A lot about it is great, but there are also some stupid things I can't get past. You can throw a scrub ship into a battle knowing it will get destroyed right away and still may pull a VP tile more valuable than someone who really invested in the battle. The endgame, where people are just buying stupid techs they don't care about for VPs is athematic and boring. There's just a lot of gamey bullshit around it. I'm not interested in TI3 but I'd love a smaller, shorter game and really hoped Eclipse would do it for me, but it doesn't.

I mean... if you look at it politically it makes thematic sense. Your one guy dying is your Doolittle Bombers, winning you potential PR and propaganda in the face of overwhelming odds, and everyone buying up tech at the end is your space race/super capitalist/military industrialist society where building and buying more things is more important than actually fighting wars as all societies decide they have too much to lose monetarily.

Grand abstractions to be sure, but if every turn in Eclipse is a decade or a century by the end I'd want to be winning by outspending my opponents rather than fighting them too.
Posted: 03 Nov 2015 08:57 by charlest #214017
charlest's Avatar
Does everyone see a swell of tech buying at the end of the game? I usually see a couple of players trying to fill out their tech rows for VPs but it's not particularly noticeable or widespread.

We seem to be of the opinion that using all of your actions to invade other players (preferably with Neutron Bombs) as much more beneficial. If you can destroy a hex even with a single Interceptor Bomber and then take it, that's a much larger swing than the 1VP another tech will get you.
Posted: 03 Nov 2015 09:14 by RobertB #214018
RobertB's Avatar
I love Eclipse, but Legomancer is right - Turn 9 can have some totally bullshit moves because there is no Turn 10. IMO, if I have a ship that isn't fighting at the end of the game, then I'm leaving points on the board. Clash of Cultures has the same problem unless you use the alternate ending card.
Posted: 03 Nov 2015 09:25 by SuperflyTNT #214019
SuperflyTNT's Avatar
charlest wrote:
Does everyone see a swell of tech buying at the end of the game? I usually see a couple of players trying to fill out their tech rows for VPs but it's not particularly noticeable or widespread.

We seem to be of the opinion that using all of your actions to invade other players (preferably with Neutron Bombs) as much more beneficial. If you can destroy a hex even with a single Interceptor Bomber and then take it, that's a much larger swing than the 1VP another tech will get you.

Not often. Usually, the last turn is spent delivering the culmination of the previous 2 turns' plots. Rarely is it "buy lots of tech for 2 VP" when you can just start, and lose, 2 fights for 2 VP tokens that might be more valuable than the opponent gets. Doubly so if it's 2 different enemies, so you're not basically trading points with one.

My usual end-game is spending the last 3 turns building ships to defend my borders, and then building enough on top of that to invade 2 additional territorires. Sometimes that means exploring 2 more territories, but mostly, it's going after the galactic core or a couple of very valuable places, like an inner-sphere planet someone was dumb enough to Monolithify. Dumb ass deserves to have me take it.
Posted: 03 Nov 2015 10:17 by Gary Sax #214023
Gary Sax's Avatar
RobertB wrote:
I love Eclipse, but Legomancer is right - Turn 9 can have some totally bullshit moves because there is no Turn 10. IMO, if I have a ship that isn't fighting at the end of the game, then I'm leaving points on the board. Clash of Cultures has the same problem unless you use the alternate ending card.

Yep, variable end is required now in my house for CoC, but once you implement it it basically solves 95% of the problem, because if you really max VP at the end of the turn and you don't hit the roll, you essentially the lose the game because you're hanging in the wind.
Posted: 03 Nov 2015 10:59 by jeb #214034
jeb's Avatar
RobertB wrote:
I love Eclipse, but Legomancer is right - Turn 9 can have some totally bullshit moves because there is no Turn 10. IMO, if I have a ship that isn't fighting at the end of the game, then I'm leaving points on the board. Clash of Cultures has the same problem unless you use the alternate ending card.
This is true. Winning the game of ECLIPSE doesn't actually a whole lot to do with playing the game of ECLIPSE. The playing is awesome: Tech trees, a cool economy, variable player powers, exploration, space combat. Then, uh, chit pull and swingy planet conquering k thx bye. That "last turn" kind of makes the whole game dumb, but it does need to end somehow.
Posted: 03 Nov 2015 12:13 by SuperflyTNT #214050
SuperflyTNT's Avatar
Gary Sax wrote:
RobertB wrote:
I love Eclipse, but Legomancer is right - Turn 9 can have some totally bullshit moves because there is no Turn 10. IMO, if I have a ship that isn't fighting at the end of the game, then I'm leaving points on the board. Clash of Cultures has the same problem unless you use the alternate ending card.

Yep, variable end is required now in my house for CoC, but once you implement it it basically solves 95% of the problem, because if you really max VP at the end of the turn and you don't hit the roll, you essentially the lose the game because you're hanging in the wind.

I've never played with this rule. I kind of like the end game's nastiness and treachery.
Posted: 03 Nov 2015 12:14 by charlest #214051
charlest's Avatar
Here's the thing - do you guys really witness people winning who didn't seemingly deserve it?

In our games the winner tends to be the person who most accurately executes their strategy in conjunction with properly managing their economy.

Next time you play try this at a very basic level:

Never settle more than 1 explored hex that doesn't have any Econ on it (or grey that you use for Economy). Discard the damn hex. Just do it even though you don't want to. Now, I'm not counting discovery token tiles here, settle those but ditch them later (see below).

Max out economy as fast as possible, place cubes from your orange track on each gray space.

Tactically bankrupt if necessary, do this on purpose to shift off of discovery token tiles with barren resources.

The game is 75% action economy in my opinion. By maintaining flexibility and tons of actions, you can respond and adapt strategically much better than your opponents. That last 25% is huge once everyone becomes proficient with maximizing their action flexibility but until that point you can wreck people by just out-actioning them if you use some tactical intelligence.

I've never felt like some guy lucked into a win or those tile draws has had a substantial impact. Maybe once or twice where our scores were dead close but I chalk that up to being the same as dice deciding a dudes on a map game. If you're both close enough that either could have won, just enjoy the amazing finish and don't worry about the results.
Posted: 03 Nov 2015 13:20 by JMcL63 #214066
JMcL63's Avatar
charlest wrote:
The game is 75% action economy in my opinion. By maintaining flexibility and tons of actions, you can respond and adapt strategically much better than your opponents. That last 25% is huge once everyone becomes proficient with maximizing their action flexibility but until that point you can wreck people by just out-actioning them if you use some tactical intelligence.
^This. Development in Eclipse is all about maximising your actions.
Posted: 03 Nov 2015 13:46 by Columbob #214069
Columbob's Avatar
Stonecutter wrote:
I'd say TI3 and Eclipse are both 4X games, where as TI:3 is a more a DoaM (A super trumped up Axis and Allies if you will) and Eclipse is a Civilization game (A super streamlined advanced civ.)

Bah, I'd say TI:3 isn't a true DoaM game either, 'cause the game's flow is dictated by whatever objectives are revealed. Just as many objectives are related to tech than with hitting someone else where it hurts, and you can luck out with one just because you happen to have had that particular tech or 3 different green tech planets in your empire. Some secrets are a lot harder to achieve than others, and some can flat out be denied through a voted law (occupying all wormholes for instance).
Posted: 03 Nov 2015 14:19 by SuperflyTNT #214071
SuperflyTNT's Avatar
I agree wholeheartedly, Charlie. The game is absolutely about making as much money as you can, as fast as you can, to support your galactic empire's ambitions. Fail to get money, you're stuck trading shit 3:1 for actions, so you're literally trading your future for your now (read: US Congress). Fail to manage your economy, it stalls and you start having to lose influence on your colonies (read: Every Eurpoean Imperial venture, ever).

It's just brilliant, and I find it to be really rather simple to teach, but to be fair, I'm a naturally gifted teacher.
Posted: 03 Nov 2015 14:26 by RobertB #214073
RobertB's Avatar
SuperflyTNT wrote:
It's just brilliant, and I find it to be really rather simple to teach, but to be fair, I'm a naturally gifted teacher.

Modest, too. :)
Posted: 03 Nov 2015 14:50 by SuperflyTNT #214077
SuperflyTNT's Avatar
Hey, everybody's got some gifts, and one of mine is the ability to take complex information and distill it down. That's what makes me an effective marketing guy.

People shouldn't be ashamed of their gifts. Me, I can teach. Ask me to cook creme brulee, or bake pretty much anything, hey, I'm not the guy.
Posted: 03 Nov 2015 16:41 by RobertB #214092
RobertB's Avatar
Just messin' with you, man. :)
Posted: 08 Nov 2015 18:27 by Pat II #214506
Pat II's Avatar
My group loves this game but I still haven't had a chance to play it. Sounds like fun and I've been itching to play it.