Barnes on Games- Cthulhu Wars in Review

Barnes on Games- Cthulhu Wars in Review Hot

Michael Barnes     
 
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The Big Green One.

This is it. Cthulhu Wars in review at Nohighscores.com. We’ve already jawed about it a bunch here over the past week, but let’s put it on the books. This is a long review, I don’t usually go so long. But I felt it warranted it, and I get into some stuff that I don’t usually cover in my reviews- more extensive product and price talk in particular.

It’s all I think about in terms of games lately. I invited a couple of friends over last night to play, the first two guys I played it with, and there wasn’t even any email discussion about what we were going to play. It was just a given that it was going to be Cthulhu Wars.

But I am reluctantly playing other games, I guess.

The two new VPG games are interesting. Wings for the Baron, I opened it up and looked it over and thought “wow, this game looks boring”. It’s about German aviation firms competing for government contracts during WWI. Granted, I like esoteric subject matter and I love economic games. But this looked spreadsheety as hell.

But wow, it’s actually really neat. It’s very Eurogamey, but more on the simpler end of things. It kind of reminds me, in a way, of Industrial Waste. But it’s all done up in GMT-quality style- lots of B&W photos, Very Serious Historical Background, that kind of stuff. You pick two actions per turn and then they go off in a specific order. Your player mat is basically a tech tree, and the idea is that you improve the effectiveness of your aircraft by developing innovative technologies. Everything you develop gives you a DRM (this game speaks in wargame language) and you want to keep increasing effectiveness to keep up with the Allies- because you can wind up peddling junk planes that the German government doesn’t want. The techs are on research cards and some you have to have prerequisites to build. The research cards also have actions on them for a little take that play. You can also perform espionage and steal techs from other players.

So what happens is that at the end of actions, the government doles out contracts. You get a die roll’s worth, but you can only take as many as you have factories. Then they pay you in papiermarks, which are basically funny money that can be stripped away from you due to inflation. So you need to take Bank actions to buy gold the papiermarks. And all of this is going on while the war grinds on, reducing everybody’s morale. It can end with a German or Allied victory, which affects the value of everything at the end.

I’m really digging it, not one for everybody but I think folks that like business games or are interested in the subject matter will really like. Sag, this means you. Strangely I somehow managed to get two games with sort of similar concepts in at the same time, I also have Secret Weapons of the Third Reich sitting here from Calvinus Games.

The other new VPG release is The Hunt, and it’s…interesting. I’m not sure if I like it or not yet. It’s gothic horror, so that is a +1 right there. 3 to 6 players (yes, this means 6 is best but I played with 4 and it worked) are in a mansion. One of them is a monster in disguise. So you don’t know that, nor do you know what _kind_ of monster it is. So you have to do a little deducing to come up with that by searching the house and interacting with other players. This is how you figure out WHAT they are so you can sort out what to attack them with. It’s kind of strange, because it is basically kind of a fighting thing where you’re going up and stabbing folks to see what happens…and it TOTALLY rides on player honesty and the honor system. Which also means that a player can flub it up by accident and confuse everyone. It’s kind of experimental, and it isn’t as streamlined as some of the other social deduction games out there (which is, BTW, my least favorite genre of games I think) but there’s something worth looking at here. It’s Jeremy Lennert, the dude that did Darkest Night.

It’s not a physical board game, but if you download the Star Wars: Battlefront IOS companion, there is a little game in it that is more or less Castle Panic: Star Wars. I mean, it is REALLY like Castle Panic. There are some differences, but I think anyone who has played that game will see the similarities as soon as you see the screen. It’s simple but I’m really digging it.

Barnes on Games- Cthulhu Wars in Review There Will Be Games
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Posted: 12 Nov 2015 13:41 by Ancient_of_MuMu #214941
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One thing that keeps occurring to me is that everyone obsesses about $700 for the full game, but that is a huge overkill. Even the most obsessed Arkham Horror fan would never suggest you buy all 4 big box expansions, the 4 small box expansions, plus all the extra bling such as miniatures, dice and plastic elder signs. To do so you would be looking at $400+. I suspect a more realistic purchase in Arkham Horror is the base game, 2 big box, one small box and some dice or gate markers, which would be around $200 and the equivalent for Cthulhu Wars would maybe be $300 (base game, 2 factions, one map and the high priests). So in a way it is only 50% more expensive than a similar game, rather than this enormous expense that sucks up the budget equivalent to10-20 games.
Posted: 12 Nov 2015 14:13 by sagrilarus #214943
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Sag, this means you.

I was sold long before that, sir.

Years ago Adam Starkweather was pitching a similar concept for WWII right here on F:At. I wonder if this is the design he was considering for development.
Posted: 12 Nov 2015 17:00 by Gary Sax #214958
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I think if I'm spending this much, I'm going to spend it on a much more original game---I'd rather spend it on something like Kingdom Death that by all accounts is trying something very unusual you don't get anywhere else. But pure personal preference, not trying to negate your point.

Of course, I'm not buying either, so it's purely hypothetical.
Posted: 12 Nov 2015 17:16 by Michael Barnes #214959
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MuMu, that is a great point. It's easy to see that $700 Mysteries of the Worm package and say "yep, this is a $700 game". When the reality is that for you, it may be a $125 (figuring in discounts if you go to retail or aftermarket for it) for you. Or if you buy it with a group as some folks have done, it's less than that even. For me, it is a $700 game because I want it all. But you are also correct in comparing it to something like Arkham Horror- the retail for all that stuff AND got all of the "extras" like the dice, miniatures and so on you are looking at several hundred dollars right there. I think what it is more than anything is that a) the expansions are really expensive, comparatively and b) there is a lot of "extra" material that is truly optional and c) you are looking at the upfront price tag for an entire product line, not just a single SKU.

Sax, that is totally valid. For me, if I'm going to buy a big bucks luxury game, my #1 concern is "is this game going to actually get played". I do not want a $400, $500 shelf toad that never gets played because it's too complicated, too weird, too long, too hard too teach others, or that requires too much commitment to get the most out of it. I want something that like I said, you can have someone over that sees it, wants to play it, and you can be in-game within 15 minutes. AND get a great gaming experience out of it that allows for beginner-level play as well as deeper material that comes out with experience.
Posted: 12 Nov 2015 17:59 by Mad Dog #214961
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I've certainly dropped a few hundred into games like Arkham as I did buy everything. Imperial Assault I'm sadly assuming I'll spend a few hundred eventually. As far as over-the-top production expensive games go, I think if it has any chance of failing in your group(s) then its not worth even considering it. Big box shelf toads are the worst. They're more like room toads.
Posted: 12 Nov 2015 18:40 by JonJacob #214962
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DoaM's and dex games are definitely my favourite genre. They are both over-represented in my collection but they all get use. This sounds exactly like something I would totally love. But I just don't have 150$ (edit: actually 205.95 + taxes at the cheapest Canadian retailer I know) right now to get it. I'm going to wait and see for the time being, there might be a chance in the future... you've certainly piqued my interest and I really want to play it now. I assume that the game is fine with some serious longevity right our of the box and the expansions just offer new factions so I don't see a need to jump all in right away even if I could round up the cash for it.
Posted: 12 Nov 2015 18:59 by drewcula #214963
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I did it. I bought one of the last CSI copies of CW. $130 minus my 4% rewards discount. Free shipping. Now I'll only sink $600 into the KS, because I'm an expansion whore. I WANT ALL THE PLASTIC CRITTERS. ALL.
Posted: 13 Nov 2015 00:16 by cdennett #214971
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I bought a copy from CSI when the price dropped, as well. I'm currently in for about $300 in the KS: all of the expansion factions (4x$50), Asaloth expansion (bunch of neutrals, $50), the plastic gates ($30), high priests ($15), and the better cardstock ($10, based this on comments here). I'm pretty comfortable with this, especially with the rules making all the faction GOOs into independents when not in play. I'm trying to resist getting any of the maps, because the closer I get to $600, the weaker my will will get. Realistically this will not hit the table very often with my group, so I really should be fine. Also, it's not so much the money, but the space. I can hide the cost from my wife, but I can't hide that pile of boxes...
Posted: 13 Nov 2015 07:16 by Disgustipater #214977
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Plastic gates have always seemed like a bad idea to me. You are taking an already crowded area and making it smaller.
Posted: 13 Nov 2015 09:03 by SuperflyTNT #214981
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Disgustipater wrote:
Plastic gates have always seemed like a bad idea to me. You are taking an already crowded area and making it smaller.

Especially when the Black Goatlings can control them. I don't think they'll fit.
Posted: 13 Nov 2015 10:58 by Disgustipater #214984
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It's been a couple years since I looked at them, but I'm pretty sure they have a wider platform built into them for just that purpose.
Posted: 13 Nov 2015 11:09 by Da Bid Dabid #214985
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I'm glad I recently splurged to be a Blood Rage late-late backer, it ensures my budget definitely has no room to even consider the possibility of CW. Other than Scott who has already posted his thoughts comparing them (with CitOW) I'd like to hear ya'll Uncle Pennybags' opinions once your games ship to ya.
Posted: 13 Nov 2015 12:05 by Michael Barnes #214993
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I'm still waiting for Blood Rage to hit MM, I'm doing the review there so...free. No KS stuff, but I don't really care as of right now.

Plastic gates, yeah...I dunno, that's on my "maybe not so much" list. The cardboard ones are fine (but are really kind of chintzy-looking compared to everything else) and I was wondering about the Dark Young on them too.

It was actually worth my $1 pledge to get Mr. Petersen's updates...he digs into design ideas, explains what everything does, etc. The neutral stuff actually sounds really neat, things that anyone can buy and use. That could add quite a lot of depth to the game.
Posted: 13 Nov 2015 12:42 by Ancient_of_MuMu #214997
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I am hugely wary of the neutral stuff. I remember when we used the mercenary rule in our blood bowl league and it was dominated by teams who had a structural weakness that was worth paying huge amounts to overcome (eg the slow teams loved having skaven runners who are the fastest players available to anyone). It meant that the asymmetry was lost, and and the asymmetry is an important part of Blood Bowl and Cthulhu Wars.
Posted: 13 Nov 2015 13:21 by stoic #215000
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I'm just going to imagine that my Nexus Ops DOAM pieces are 10 times larger than they really are and play it. It will save me some serious cash. In my leisure though, I'll continue to worship Cthulhu and calculate non-Euclidian geometry in the Louisiana swamps adjacent to my home... ph'nglui mglw'nafh cthulhu r'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn...
Posted: 13 Nov 2015 13:39 by SuperflyTNT #215002
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While you're at it, make up some cards for the factions that give them boosts every time they gain X amount of points or something.
Posted: 14 Nov 2015 12:08 by stoic #215035
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SuperflyTNT wrote:
While you're at it, make up some cards for the factions that give them boosts every time they gain X amount of points or something.

There's been some discussion on that topic to make asymmetrical faction powers for Nexus Ops. I haven't experimented with it. You?

www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/836321/tech...gy-sets-each-faction

www.artscow.com/Member/FileManager.aspx?folder=3283703&album=1

www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/1379745/nexus-ops-factions-variant
Posted: 14 Nov 2015 12:13 by ThirstyMan #215036
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stoic wrote:
...... and calculate non-Euclidian geometry....

Wow, I do that all the time. Does that mean I'm a Cthulhu worshipper? Is that the same as a physicist?
Posted: 14 Nov 2015 12:21 by stoic #215037
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ThirstyMan wrote:
stoic wrote:
...... and calculate non-Euclidian geometry....

Wow, I do that all the time. Does that mean I'm a Cthulhu worshipper? Is that the same as a physicist?

I'll consult Cthulhu and Lovecraft's interdimensional shade when I next see them in the swamp.
Posted: 14 Nov 2015 14:02 by SuperflyTNT #215038
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@Stoic: No. I don't own Nexus Ops anymore. Played it a bunch and kind of realized it's not deep enough for my DOAM tastes.

So, this happened today:
image-5.jpeg


The bits seem smaller now. The box seems like it's mostly empty. Shellie has the battle foam in it and it makes sense...mine has bags.

The more I think about this the less I am seeing $150.00 in value there. Mine is a KS version, and I'm not seeing any stretch goals or anything.

If they were painted, totally $150.00 or even $200.00 but unpainted, I just don't see a hundred fifty dollars in the box.
Posted: 14 Nov 2015 15:00 by dfour #215039
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Tell me more about how you're not seeing the value, so I can stay strong and not give in in these final days.
Posted: 14 Nov 2015 15:44 by SuperflyTNT #215042
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dfour wrote:
Tell me more about how you're not seeing the value, so I can stay strong and not give in in these final days.
  • There's only 30-40 miniatures in the box. Granted, they're big, but still, there's not a lot.
  • The cardstock is thin. The copy I got was sleeved and still my reference cards are bent up.
  • Player mats are thin cardstock as well.
  • The box is as empty as Yig's soul. The box is HUGE and mostly empty. This means less structure. My box had torn corners and seams.
  • It's a far better-than-average DoaM, based on one play, but it's not 100$ better.
  • 50$ per expansion is STEEP AS FUCK. 13 models, 6 cardboard counters, a thin character sheet....and that's 50$? Suck a dick.
  • The "grandiosity" wears off. I played in Mass on Oct. 20th or so. It's not even a month later and now I'm looking at my copy thinking "I remember them being bigger"

I hope this helps. I'd be in for $100.00-$120.00 but for $150.00 I think it's a bit much. If it had a built-in 5th faction I'd be all over it.
Posted: 14 Nov 2015 17:35 by Hex Sinister #215044
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Shoddy cardstock is a real downer for a "Premium" title like this. Close enough to being a dealbreaker for me. Even shitty DotR had decent player boards.

I'm toying with the idea of asking my crew if they will split the cost of this + a 5th faction. I'm not rich enough to own a $200 shelf turd. If dudes put money in then it would get played. And I know for sure this would be a perfect game for everyone since we all have roots in CoC + DoaM. I dunno, it makes me feel greasy to ask lol.
Posted: 14 Nov 2015 18:28 by Michael Barnes #215046
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In the update Mr. Petersen "respectfully disagreed" with me about the cardboard in the game but it's just a fact- they do not meet the quality of the plastics even half way. The punchboards are a little thicker, but they are also of lower quality (visually and materially) than what you'd see in an FFG, Z-Man or Asmodee title. The player mats and tracks are thin cardstock, mine were "pre-bent" from shifting around in the box.

And the dice...they really bug me. You can buy a $25 game that has custom, etched dice. But in CW you literally get stock D6s...little ones. Black, not even green or something.

The board is fine, but nothing special and it's visually pretty bland...this is one place I will compare it to CitOW, which had a GREAT looking board. In a $60 product.

The figures really do make up for those disappointments, I'm sure they were quite expensive to sculpt, mold and assemble (a couple are multiple pieces). And this is some hard ass, "toy grade" plastic, not the brittle or bendy stuff game minis are usually made of.

If the game were made on a bigger scale by a larger company, I think they could have hit their margin target without cutting those kinds of corners.

The game is so good I overlook some of that...but there again, it's up to you to do the math and determine if it's all worth it.
Posted: 14 Nov 2015 20:05 by SuperflyTNT #215047
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With all due respect and speaking from my own personal experience, I do think that a critic can overlook some shit when it arrives free of charge. That's one reason I never tell my crew if it's a review copy or not because I don't want to bias anyone when they vote.

I know I can overlook a lot of shit when I get something free. If someone moves and I get thier kitchen table, for example, the nicks and scratches don't bother me, but If I paid for it at a garage sale, I'd be far more critical.

Just my 2c.

With regard to THIS game, I'd love to know their budened cost. If they're not clearing 75$ a copy then they suck at life.

The shipping bill I got for receiving my copy from St Louis was $14.50 + 3 for insurance
Posted: 16 Nov 2015 09:42 by jpat #215121
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I really don't know how the various paper/thin cardstock inserts couldn't have been shrinkwrapped (probably against some sort of backing board to avoid immediate warping) or something to avoid the inevitable bent corners/edges. Or even have been put somewhere where they weren't going to slide around. The corners that were cut (no pun intended) on this production are kind of unconscionable. KS backers are getting improved tracks, and you can buy cardstock faction sheets, but all the money, I think, went into the plastic and that pretty insane insert (which both preserves the GOO minis and probably ensures that the others stacked below it are bent.

Speaking of, anyone know whether these minis are amenable to the hot water/cold water unbending trick? I've got at least one figure nearly doubled over. Haven't gotten through all of them yet; twas a wretched weekend in every respect.
Posted: 16 Nov 2015 09:47 by SuperflyTNT #215122
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I don't have any insert in my box.
Posted: 16 Nov 2015 10:06 by Michael Barnes #215126
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OMG the insert.

It's like, 1/4 the weight of the box. It's not the usual thin vaccuform thing. It's like hard ass, heavy gauge plastic. Like, plano box plastic. And it's custom-molded to fit the GOO figures and the Dark Young. Thing is, once you take it out, the stuff doesn't really fit back in the box under it.

CERTAINLY that insert could have been ditched in favor of some kind of component upgrades. I don't know how much it cost to do that, but I can't imagine that it couldn't have been swapped out for punchboard administrative boards, custom dice or something.

Mine is sitting under the desk as a footrest. Thinking about recycling it because it has no other use.
Posted: 16 Nov 2015 10:11 by SuperflyTNT #215127
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What the hell!!?!? How come mine doesn't have this bad ass insert?
Posted: 16 Nov 2015 10:16 by SuperflyTNT #215128
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Michael Barnes wrote:
OMG the insert.
CERTAINLY that insert could have been ditched in favor of some kind of component upgrades. I don't know how much it cost to do that, but I can't imagine that it couldn't have been swapped out for punchboard administrative boards, custom dice or something.

I just looked up the old KS Campaign, and they had offered custom dice
123c889f832c28d2a50fdf202cbf94eb_original.jpg



They just cost 12 bucks.
Posted: 16 Nov 2015 10:22 by Space Ghost #215129
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SuperflyTNT wrote:
What the hell!!?!? How come mine doesn't have this bad ass insert?

The guy in Joplin is probably using it as watering dish for his dogs
Posted: 16 Nov 2015 10:26 by jpat #215130
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SuperflyTNT wrote:
What the hell!!?!? How come mine doesn't have this bad ass insert?

I actually thought you just meant that you'd ditched it.

This is what it is, at about the 4:30 mark:
Posted: 16 Nov 2015 10:31 by Disgustipater #215132
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Michael Barnes wrote:
Thing is, once you take it out, the stuff doesn't really fit back in the box under it.

We just take the empty insert out, turn it upside down, put all the models into the thing, with as many bases facing up as possible. Then pick it up, and slide the bottom of the box over it, flip the whole thing right-side up, then put the GOOs away and add the rest of the components. Works pretty well for us.
Posted: 16 Nov 2015 10:40 by SuperflyTNT #215134
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Awww man, that's shitty. I'm going to have to bitch at the guy who traded me.
Posted: 16 Nov 2015 11:50 by craniac #215144
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Your link to the NoHighScores review is to the .jpg, not the review: www.nohighscores.com/2015/11/11/cracked-...ulhu-wars-in-review/
Posted: 16 Nov 2015 13:48 by Michael Barnes #215161
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Pete I will sell you my tray for $20, which is probably about its retail value. Shipping will be another $20.

Craniac- stop cryin'. And stop expecting me to be able to use the internet correctly.
Posted: 16 Nov 2015 13:56 by SuperflyTNT #215166
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Yeah, better plan is to have the guy who traded me EAT the shipping, and send it to me because he owes me.
Posted: 17 Nov 2015 13:55 by dfour #215265
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Well, I suck. I saw CSI had Cthulhu Wars back in stock for $130, and caved and bought it. Then I backed the $150 Onslaught 2 expansion package. I justify it by telling myself I will sell off enough kickstarter exclusive items to pay for the whole shebang. Right? That'll work. Right guys?

I also somehow was able to back Arcadia Quest Inferno at early bird. Not sure if I'll keep it but I feel like this game would really work for my family and group. Now I just have to hope that Simurgh will suck and then I'll be all done buying games for the next 3 years. How do I get on this 'review copy' playlist you guys seem to be subscribed to? I could muster up a barely coherent review every couple of weeks in exchange.

Now I just need to hop on Mint, delete all evidence from my wife, and then tell her my BGG secret santa was ultra generous this year.
Posted: 17 Nov 2015 14:01 by charlest #215266
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If you're backing at the level just to get onslaught 2's new additions I'd reconsider. I think for someone who owns just the base game, the best course of action is to do the $1 level and do $150 worth of add-ons (as opposed to a $150 level. This way you can get a faction or two from the first Kickstarter and could get a previously designed map instead of the Library. I'd still get the Tcho Tcho's since stretch goals work with them.
Posted: 17 Nov 2015 14:11 by dfour #215268
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Can you give me a bang for buck recommendation list? I have no idea what to buy because I don't know wtf anything is. I want $150 of the greatest hits. The million favored ones had by far the most amount of pledges so I was just assuming that's the one to get.
Posted: 17 Nov 2015 14:39 by charlest #215271
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People pledging for Million Favored Ones are likely backers from the first Kickstarter and they just want the new ones.

I haven't played with any expansion stuff yet and I'm doing the $1 pledge and see how I feel when the Pledge Manager is about to close.

Personally, there's a strong possibility I go 2 factions, 1 map and the thicker faction boards. That should be around stretch goal territory.

I also may just do $11 and get the thicker boards and wait and see what hits retail. I kind of want Azathoth too.

It's tough because nothing is guaranteed to hit retail (besides the base game), so it's hard to know if CSI or MM will order all of the expansions or just a selection to test the waters. You risk not being able to get something versus something being available for 15-20% less.
Posted: 17 Nov 2015 14:46 by dfour #215272
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I see. Go $1 pledge for now and when they open up the pledge manager you pick and choose the factions. I'll do this. I'd rather have 3 full factions than 1 faction with a random assortment of mini's.
Posted: 17 Nov 2015 15:11 by Ancient_of_MuMu #215274
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I think the best bang for your buck at the moment is to go for 155 or 165:
$100 - 2 Factions out of Opener, Sleeper, Tcho-Tchos
$40 - 1 Map (Dreamlands or Yuggoth)
$15 - High Priests
$10 - Thick punchboards.

You will get all the stretch goals, so you will have some glow Great Old ones with their cards to use as neutral units, plus any old one you are not using in a game as a neutral unit.
Posted: 17 Nov 2015 15:29 by dfour #215277
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I was thinking Tcho Tcho's and Azathoth because is not a standalone faction and interacts with all. Should help keep things fresh, Or am I just better off with opener or sleeper?

Ok I'll get one of those maps. Will get punchboards. How necessary are the high priests?
Posted: 17 Nov 2015 15:47 by Ancient_of_MuMu #215279
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dfour wrote:
I was thinking Tcho Tcho's and Azathoth because is not a standalone faction and interacts with all. Should help keep things fresh, Or am I just better off with opener or sleeper?

Ok I'll get one of those maps. Will get punchboards. How necessary are the high priests?
This is advice from someone who hasn't played the game and is just reading everything, so take it with a grain of salt.

I would probably go for another faction before Azathoth, as the whole novelty of being neutral is diminished by the rules in the new KS for having the other GOOs as neutrals. The high priests are the non faction expansion that people seem to like most. They do the same thing as neutral units in providing a benefit to everyone for a fraction of the price, and there is special content in the KS for named high priests to make them even more useful.
Posted: 17 Nov 2015 15:59 by Michael Barnes #215284
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I'm thinking Azathoth, actually....1) because it's Azathoth and because it comes with some really cool "main" monsters (Elder Things, Star Vampires, Servitors) 2) Reading the rules, I like how the neutrality works...it's a pretty big cost to get this stuff on your side, but it can be huge- and it can put pressure on other players to join the arms race.

I am actually looking at the "all the old stuff" package. It depends on how much I can trade out for cash before the pledge manager closes. But if not, I'm going with:

Tcho Tcho
Azathoth
Sleeper
Yuggoth
6-8 player Primeval (since I'll have six factions and it's just $15)
1st GOO pack (again, I like the neutral concepts)
High Priests (I think everybody ought to get these- by far the biggest bang for the buck)
Punchboards

I really want the Dreamlands because I like that stuff, but I'm wondering if you really want to have the over/under ground Dreamland monster packs for that map. If so, that becomes a much more expensive add.

I don't think I'm very interested in the plastic gates or the Shining Trapehedron stuff...at first I was, but then I realized that I wanted content over bling. Even though bling is pretty important here.

Remember too that shipping is...a lot.
Posted: 17 Nov 2015 16:20 by SuperflyTNT #215287
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I made my choice, using the great Pledge Manager (app.crowdox.com/projects/1816687860/1228867626/pledge)

Tcho-Tcho (50)
Sleeper (50)
Azathoth (50)
Dreamlands Underworld (20)
High Priest (15)
Gates (30)
Punchboard Factions (10)
1$ Access fee
Total: 226.

Fuck, I feel dirty.
Posted: 17 Nov 2015 17:17 by stoic #215293
stoic's Avatar
.

thirsty.jpg
Posted: 17 Nov 2015 17:22 by Ancient_of_MuMu #215294
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I have gone for something similar in the end, as I relented and added Tcho-Tchos and the 6-8 player map as I will have 7 factions.

Tcho-Tcho (50)
Sleeper (50)
Opener (50)
Dreamlands (40)
6-8 Player Earth (15)
High priests (15)
Punchboard Factions (10)
1$ Access fee

Total: $231
Posted: 17 Nov 2015 17:29 by dfour #215295
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The more I think about this game, the more I think about how 'pirateable' it is. You can just download the rules online (or buy the master rule set in this kickstarter) and utilize other mini's you already have in your collection. I got to thinking about this by debating whether I should buy the high priests. I don't want to spend any cash on those mini's but I could easily implement the rules with other mini's I have.

Or maybe not. Looks like the high priests have some cards involved. That's good. Makes it more worth it.
Posted: 17 Nov 2015 17:31 by Michael Barnes #215296
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I hit $266.
Posted: 17 Nov 2015 18:04 by dfour #215301
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All right, just for a sanity check. All of you who are buying $250 worth of expansions, I'm also assuming you spent $150 on the base gaming, bringing your all in to $400. Are you telling me you would rather have this, than this random compilation of games I pulled off from CSI?

i.imgur.com/Kn1Fwrx.png?1
Posted: 17 Nov 2015 18:09 by Michael Barnes #215302
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I already have all of those that I want. There isn't really anything else I can think I that I'd spend money on, to be honest. Sanity wise, I'm thinking $250 is about max but I got the core game for free so there's that.
Posted: 17 Nov 2015 18:22 by Ancient_of_MuMu #215303
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dfour wrote:
All right, just for a sanity check. All of you who are buying $250 worth of expansions, I'm also assuming you spent $150 on the base gaming, bringing your all in to $400. Are you telling me you would rather have this, than this random compilation of games I pulled off from CSI?

i.imgur.com/Kn1Fwrx.png?1
My wife very wisely decided that I could have one large cupboard for my games, and with both of us on good wages, storage and play time is much more of an issue than cost. Thus the 11 games you listed for the same price require much more of an investment in time and space than $400 of Cthulhu wars.
Posted: 17 Nov 2015 19:02 by Disgustipater #215304
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dfour wrote:
The more I think about this game, the more I think about how 'pirateable' it is. You can just download the rules online (or buy the master rule set in this kickstarter) and utilize other mini's you already have in your collection. I got to thinking about this by debating whether I should buy the high priests. I don't want to spend any cash on those mini's but I could easily implement the rules with other mini's I have.

We've been using 40K miniatures to proxy the Sleeper, Opener, and Windwalker factions. Although I'm pretty sure our CW owner is going all in and getting everything. So it was more of a 'try before you buy' situation.
Posted: 17 Nov 2015 20:27 by SuperflyTNT #215310
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dfour wrote:
All right, just for a sanity check. All of you who are buying $250 worth of expansions, I'm also assuming you spent $150 on the base gaming, bringing your all in to $400. Are you telling me you would rather have this, than this random compilation of games I pulled off from CSI?

i.imgur.com/Kn1Fwrx.png?1

I'm definitely different than a lot of people in that I play a game several hundred times. This game absolutely doesn't deserve the money I'm throwing down the rabbit hole at it...unless, to you, it does.

To be honest, as of now I have a 1$ pledge. I planned on upping it after the campaign. I really can't envision myself not wanting an Xbox1 and Fallout 4 instead, so I may only get a few things like the gates or something.

I traded for the core set, too; didn't drop 150 on it.
Posted: 17 Nov 2015 20:31 by dfour #215311
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I'm with you guys, but if we don't unlock glow in the dark azathoth I'm going to be seriously disappointed.
Posted: 17 Nov 2015 22:15 by Scott_F #215319
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I'll admit here I will probably buy in at the $600 everything level after buying the base game for $150. This is a game and style that I really like thanks to the variety and asymmetry of the factions, and it looks awesome. It plays fast and each faction gets to do something fun not even counting neutrals and independent GOOs. More importantly for me I have a far easier time getting the groups of people I know to play this game than my other favorites, including Kemet and Chaos in the Old World, both for easier rules and for a shorter play time. No it doesn't really tell a story or have a theme other than cool unique monsters fucking with each other, but for me thats enough of a theme to get behind. It has no more nor less of a theme than Kemet, and while Chaos has a great theme its always sad that Khorne is really the main scary faction.

As far as spending that money on other games, I'm actively trying to reduce the number of games I have on the shelf. I only own about 40 games in total and a good dozen of those are 2 player only games, ideally I cut another 10 or so games somewhere too. I've had fun playing this game every time out of about a dozen times and for the most part everyone has enjoyed it. Yeah some of the other games are good too but I definitely have a type and this is it.

Also in regards to the Nexus Ops comparisons here mentioned, I disagree on that account. Actively fighting in this game doesn't seem that optimal to me for many of the factions other than Cthulhu and Crawling Chaos in the late game. The other factions do alot better at manipulating the board and threatening others instead of outright starting battles. With only a 1/6 chance of kills and a 1/3 chance of having a force retreat battles are risky when you look at the total turns you have in an average 5-6 turn game. Thats not to say Black Goat or Yellow Sign shouldn't fight a weak target depending on the situation, but they both have plenty of other options than straight fighting to take over a gate with less risk.

Of everything offered I'm not that interested in the alternate maps since they introduce random neutral enemies that further fuck up the board. But when I look at the list of everything each of the independent GOOs and neutral monsters do, and look at all of the faction spellbooks and units, I have a hard time cutting any of those and by then I'm already at about $450-500.

I do have serious concerns about transporting this bitch once it shows up, but thats a problem for another day.
Posted: 17 Nov 2015 22:52 by ubarose #215321
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@Scott, I think it feels like nexus ops. It's tactical and opptunistic, and fluid. You have a handful of bite sized objectives, whether spell criteria or victory cards, like "kill two dudes in battle," or "control three gates/lava regions." As opposed a strategic DoaM game of conquest and domination.
Posted: 18 Nov 2015 06:36 by charlest #215325
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Michael Barnes wrote:
I already have all of those that I want. There isn't really anything else I can think I that I'd spend money on, to be honest. Sanity wise, I'm thinking $250 is about max but I got the core game for free so there's that.

You mentioned getting the Primeval 6-8 player map, you realize you need the regular Primeval map as well right? The 6-8 player maps require the base map, so 6-8 earth is your best bet if you just want a 6-8 map.
Posted: 18 Nov 2015 06:48 by SuperflyTNT #215328
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The campaign ended and I didn't realize it. I guess they got me for 1$, and I've got 225$ left for bourbon.
Posted: 18 Nov 2015 06:59 by Scott_F #215329
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You're not wrong Uba, but I still think there is a big difference between the two games. I've played a handful of Nexus Ops games where I just rolled for shit and lost. Nothing I could do about that and it turned me off of the game for a long time. On the other hand, when I lose in Cthulhu Wars it is very very rarely because of how I rolled in a battle. In combat Crawling Chaos can abduct and use invisibility, Cthulhu can devour and buff up his units, and these are the two combat focused faction. I've played games as Black Goat where I didn't care whether I lost the battle or not the entire game; I had better moves to make then fighting. Thats why I'm saying there is a significant difference.
Posted: 18 Nov 2015 07:19 by jpat #215330
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I'm just in for $1 and will figure out what, if anything, to add (maybe up to more or less all-in) when the pledge manager opens, depending on how I feel about the base game.
Posted: 18 Nov 2015 07:33 by Michael Barnes #215331
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How long do you usually have to decide/pay once the pledge manager is open? Are we talking a day? A month? Six months?
Posted: 18 Nov 2015 07:36 by charlest #215333
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Most KS campaigns that use one leave it open about 1-2 months. Sandy alluded to this one being open for 2-3. You can wait until the very last day to increase your funds (they will notify with a date of when it closes so it won't sneak up on you).
Posted: 18 Nov 2015 07:38 by Michael Barnes #215334
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Well I might just be all in then...
Posted: 18 Nov 2015 07:40 by drewcula #215335
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I'm "all in," though I took a peculiar route. I bought the base game last week with the CSI price drop. I used the opportunity to grab my BGG's secret santa shit along the way. I put $600 into the KS. That sum would make me vomit, but I've mentally and financially prepared myself for months. I still haven't played the game, but I feel I'm fairly informed.

- I've been lurking the CW KS since day one .
- I subscribed to the CW page on BGG, and read the roller coaster of emotion as backers worried over delays and rejoiced over final delivery.
- Arthur started dropping hints of a second KS in the spring.
- I man handled the shit out of every component at Gencon, and asked Sandy and Arthur how they weren't going to cock up Onslaught 2.
- I messaged three trusted F:ATties about their opinions.
- I hold Michael's game reviews in high regard.
- I sold my Super Dungeon Explore collection and some spare Heroquest shit on eBay for a nice chunk of change.
- I did not tell my wife the exact sum, just another truth, "The sales of the other games covered the costs of CW."

The main game arrived yesterday. I'm going to reward myself with it once I finish some work in the studio. If anyone wants to play in DC, touch base.
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Posted: 18 Nov 2015 07:46 by SuperflyTNT #215336
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We should PBEM this game, or maybe VASSAL it. I always wondered how to make that happen...I don't normally mess with that stuff.
Posted: 18 Nov 2015 08:02 by Shellhead #215340
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SuperflyTNT wrote:
We should PBEM this game, or maybe VASSAL it. I always wondered how to make that happen...I don't normally mess with that stuff.

What about Skype? That seems like a possible way to play a board game long-distance, depending on the game.
Posted: 18 Nov 2015 08:02 by charlest #215341
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There's a lot of PBF's going on at BGG. Since every space has a name I believe, we could easily play by forum here.

I'd totally be down with that, although it would be slow as hell. I've only done one PBF/PBE before in the past (Tragedy Looper) and it took us weeks to finish a 2 hour game.
Posted: 18 Nov 2015 09:19 by SuperflyTNT #215350
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Shellhead wrote:
SuperflyTNT wrote:
We should PBEM this game, or maybe VASSAL it. I always wondered how to make that happen...I don't normally mess with that stuff.

What about Skype? That seems like a possible way to play a board game long-distance, depending on the game.

I've done that quite a bit. 4 Player is kind of hard.
Posted: 21 Nov 2015 13:09 by dfour #215570
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Well, my Cthulhu Wars copy from CSI came today. The box is damaged in one corner, completely split down the side and dented on the bottom box, and dented and smashed on the top box. How acceptable is this under the circumstances? For most games I'd just let this slide but on a game as premium and expensive as this I can't help but be bothered by the condition of this box. I mean, it literally looks like somebody dropped the box straight onto one corner from 5 feet high.
Posted: 21 Nov 2015 13:13 by Disgustipater #215573
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Pretty common I think. Every box I've seen has a torn/split edge or two.

Dents and smashes on the other hand, not so sure.
Posted: 21 Nov 2015 15:23 by SuperflyTNT #215581
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Bitch at them. You paid for a game that was I damaged and they sent a ding and dent.
Posted: 21 Nov 2015 15:37 by charlest #215585
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I would email CSI customer service and voice my concerns. Maybe they will refund a portion or offer store credit.
Posted: 21 Nov 2015 16:46 by Gary Sax #215588
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Yeah, snap a couple cell pictures of it and send them along with a complaint, I'd say. It sounds serious enough to care about (I usually don't re: box damage).