3M bookshelf games

I played Win Place & Show at a game night a couple of years ago and just loved the hell out of it. It played tight, there was hidden information and skill vs luck components--it was extremely rewarding. In addition it looked frigging sweet! It was the 3M version, not the Avalon Hill repackaged boxed version--which was also present and not nearly as sexy.

Has anyone here played the other 3M games? Are they as good? I'm looking at Regatta, Speed Circuit, maybe the golf or baseball games. I know Acquire is hot shit, of course, but I'd rather not pay that much.

Are these games still nice, have they been surpassed by more recent racing/sports games? is one version vastly improved over another?

Thanks!

here's some links:
www.gamepile.com/items.php?id=2
www.boardgamegeek.com/wiki/page/3M_Sports_Games

WIN PLACE AND SHOW is awesome. I think it's probably the best horse racing game out there, although it's a photo finish with REALLY NASTY HORSERACING GAME.

The other 3M "vinyl box/board" games are pretty cool as well...REGATTA is interesting, it's actually a pretty decent sailing simulation that I just totally can't play well. The golf one looks neat even though I hate golf.

SPEED CIRCUIT is in my opinion the other "must have" out of the line...it's one of the few race games that plays really quickly (hello, it's a RACE, not a tax form)and has a lot of action. No luck, so it's very deterministic but it's somehow still really dramatic and fun...just don't let people sit around counting spaces and optimizing moves. Seat of your pants, man!

I checked the BGG MarketPlace and someone posted a decent shape 3M Regatta for $20 today. I snapped it up. I'll keep my eyes peeled for Speed Circuit.

THINKING MAN'S GOLF is OK, and you can get it for next to nothing. The key to the game is a transparent sheet that you lay over the board. The sheet is perforated with little round holes in a grid pattern. You use this sheet to aim your shot, taking wind conditions into account, and then you declare your club selection and roll the dice. A table determines which of the little holes your ball lands in, based on your club and your roll. This result may be modified slightly by the wind. Once you've resolved the location of the ball, you mark it by poking the tip of a grease pencil through the appropriate hole on the sheet.

It's golf, so there's no player interaction, and there's not much strategy. Tactics are limited to club selection and deciding where to aim.

The game isn't a forgotten gem, but the grease pencil is kind of unusual and fun. It's worth a play or two, but WIN PLACE & SHOW it is not.

jeb wrote:

I played Win Place & Show at a game night a couple of years ago and just loved the hell out of it. It played tight, there was hidden information and skill vs luck components--it was extremely rewarding. In addition it looked frigging sweet! It was the 3M version, not the Avalon Hill repackaged boxed version--which was also present and not nearly as sexy.

Has anyone here played the other 3M games? Are they as good? I'm looking at Regatta, Speed Circuit, maybe the golf or baseball games. I know Acquire is hot shit, of course, but I'd rather not pay that much.

Are these games still nice, have they been surpassed by more recent racing/sports games? is one version vastly improved over another?

Thanks!

Still have my THINKING MAN'S FOOTBALL. Basically, it's a vinyl map, a china marker, three six siders with penalty markers, and a slide ruler for different plays. Very dry, but playable game. WP&S is far better.

Got my Win, Place & Show in the mail today. I just love this game. This is the 1966 version, and most of the money isn't even released from the waxy junk. I'm going to try and get this going this weekend.

Thanks for the comments on the Thinking Man's games. I think I'm going to go for Speed Circuit and Blue Line Hockey as my next couple of targets.

I never understood the appeal of WP&S. I looked at it and as far as I could tell it only had two variables, the Bonus movement roll and the type of jockey. It seemed extremely abstract.

Just played WP&S this weekend with the family. For my son (11) and I, it was far superior to Winner's Circle. To my daughter (7) and, somewhat, my wife, Winner's Circle was easier--therefore preferable.

My daughter loves horses---which is why we have these games. WP&S is really too much for her right now whereas Winner's Circle (Royal Turf) is more accessible.

Regarding limited variables: The choice of lanes, varied "speed" times, and passing spots all make it a far more interesting game (at least potentially--not sure how a 2 player game of this would go)

Adrian Bolt wrote:

I never understood the appeal of WP&S. I looked at it and as far as I could tell it only had two variables, the Bonus movement roll and the type of jockey. It seemed extremely abstract.

You write that like someone that has read the rulebook, but never played. Unlike that Knizia chariot game where racing is all that matters, in WP&S you have an auction for the horse (or stable) that you own and run in the race, you have a betting round in which you try to work out which horses will win, place, and show (Daily Doubles too), and then you actually race the ponies. If you spend a lot for a horse, you have less to bet. If you auction up a horse that someone else wants, they have less to bet--and you can still bet their horse. All bets are secret until paid out at the end. Or yelled out towards the finish line when you tell that slow PoS to get moving.

In the race itself, the horses have varying Class and Speed ratings. Class is the sum of the running strength numbers, and speed is the sum of all but the final running strength. So, a horse with Class of 49 and Speed of 38 finishes very strongly. BUT: If the white die hits enough high numbers over the length of the race, then that last running strength number probably won't matter.

Jockeys have the option to pull up the horse up to three spaces short of their count to stay on a Passing square (only if you start a move on a passing square can you squeeze by a horse without changing lanes). This can -really- be important, because the horses race in the order determined by the die roll--you might just get FUCKED and perhaps only be able to move 2 spaces instead of 13. It's just murder when that happens. And, let's not forget that you can MAKE that happen to someone else by blocking up lanes in front of them.

Also, because you can bet AGAINST your own horse, there's an incentive to cheat and pull up when maybe you shouldn't, or perhaps take a crappy lane in the turns. There are rules to punish this, but they are subtle and risky for the person invoking them.

The game has a lot going on, and it's a GREAT 6-player experience. Anyone extra can still get in on the betting too, even if they don't get to race a horse.

You're absolutely correct, I read the rules and thought it's a game that would reward careful calculation and since a lot of our group at the time did that I avoided it. I was also put off at a convention when I discovered someone who kept a log of every single race in order to improve his play!! Since there's only two variables within the race mechanics this struck me as lunacy! At the time I picked up a really cheap copy of Turf Horse Racing, which we only played a few times as it's fairly average (and Euro, though at the time I didn't know that). Which brings us to that "Knizia chariot game". Wild horses couldn't drag me into playing that. There is only one Circus Maximus and we all know it's the AH one.

You describe WP&S really well, but it does make me think, once again, how important it is to play with the right group for any particular game because your comments are saying that essentially WP&S is Ameritrash. What makes so many people think that WP&S is the best horse racing game by far? Could it be that the secret ingredient is actually AT?

Regatta: meh. Not so great. Kind of boring, actually. If I was into sailing, I might be more into this, but it's not gelling for me. It's tradebait. It does look nice though.

Speed Circuit: This shit is fun. Flying around corners--they've done a nice job with the balance in this game.

Still looking for Blue Line Hockey.

Hey Jeb: Which version of Regatta did you pick up? I'd be interested in taking it off your hands if you can find anything of interest on my list.

And, to whomever said there is only 1 Circus Maximus--that may be true; but there's also Circus Imperium , which is a laugh riot with a large group. Kinda CircusMax with a sense of humor.