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Old Game Workshop games, which ones to check out?
I dunno about violently being raped. You may not get the best hand of cards, roll many command points, or have a strong chit draw, but all of that seems to even out over the course of a game. I don't think I've seen a session where one player simply couldn't do anything all game.
I don't know, man. I've had sessions where I've wanted to flip the fucking table. You roll 2 or 3 CP a few turns in a row, and meanwhile the other guy just drew a missile launcher. Oh, yup, he's setting it up in the window. There goes the west face of my block. Good thing all I've got all these mob counters on the board. It'll only be 10 years before they get over there to stop him. Well, I rolled 4, might as well do nothing else and draw a counter. Oh good! City Def! Next turn, I'll try to get them to the pedway. I'll have to go through this open square... Oh, attacked by a gang, huh? Fucking special. Oh yeah, of course they fucking died. Oh look! I rolled 3 CP A-FUCKING-GAIN!!! Well, I didn't want to do this, but I guess I'm going to have to use the Kleggs. Oh, no, nevermind. I should have known you had a Kleggs Go Home.
Whee!!! What fun this is!
It's not a matter of "not getting the best" draws and rolls. I'm talking about when you're struggling with your shitty draws and rolls to get something you need immediately to fight the other guy with, and when you finally get it, he plays a card that takes it out of the game just like that. Boom. You're fucked. Nothing you can do about it, nothing you could have done about it.
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I guess I haven't experienced it because I've only ever played it with Mega Mania (3-4 player), so seldom does one player focus all of their arsenal on another individual. That and early on we always house-ruled 6+d6 command points instead of 2d6.
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Jeff White wrote: Like the other games of it's size (ManOWar, Necromunda, Blood Bowl, Mordheim, etc) you weren't getting a complete game in one box. They were more entry points to systems. For that reason I always excluded these type of games when talking about GWs 'boardgaming' past.
I disagree. Sure they were entry points to a huge system, but you could also play endless games with only the box' contents, even playing a 2-player league/campaign or whatever of most of those games with the 2 included factions.
The only game where levelling wasn't really feasible without investing more was WHQ, but then again, the game came with 36 "scenarios" plus a game-mastered one where you didn't need anything more than what was in the box and a pencil and eraser.
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Columbob wrote:
Jeff White wrote: Like the other games of it's size (ManOWar, Necromunda, Blood Bowl, Mordheim, etc) you weren't getting a complete game in one box. They were more entry points to systems. For that reason I always excluded these type of games when talking about GWs 'boardgaming' past.
I disagree. Sure they were entry points to a huge system, but you could also play endless games with only the box' contents, even playing a 2-player league/campaign or whatever of most of those games with the 2 included factions.
Yes, you could play lots of games, but you couldn't take full advantage of the rules in any of those games with only what was included in the box. Did you have goblins or trolls on your ork roster? How about going to a full 16 man squad? Can't be done with the base blood bowl box alone.
The same is true for the other games as well. No Hired Swords for Mordheim, no juves, or heavies with the necromunda box set, etc. And this doesn't even include the terrain you need to really play the games.
No matter how you slice it, GW sold you a game with a complete set of rules, but not all of the pieces to play with all the rules. I've always though that 'boardgames' where self contained. Sure expansions may come along, but I expect to be able to play with all of the rules in a base game with what's in the box.
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But yeah, the way the games are presented though, you wanted more. But that's the GW marketing strategy, selling you a "hobby" rather than a simple game.
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Classic GW right there. Let's put some ridiculously hard-hitting random thing in there and not spend the 30 seconds it takes to realize what a bad idea it is, and how easily it could torpedo the entire game. WQ is full of shit like that. Poke your head into a new room... AMBUSHED BY 20 SKAVEN! You're completely surrounded, so don't bother trying anything like running away, or getting to a safer spot. You can't move for the next half hour, so just keep rollin' them bones until you find out whether or not you live through it. You probably won't. It might help if you keep telling yourself this is fun.
Oh, and who's genius idea was the rule that only the guy with the torch gets to reveal a new board section? It's not like the Barbarian doesn't already get to do the lion's share of the killing as it is, which is all there is to the game anyway, let's marginalize all the weaker characters even more.
These are just transparently, I'd even say objectively boneheaded design choices. I've never seen any game this side of Candy Land that goes so far out of its way to keep you from making any sort of consequential decision yourself.
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- Jackwraith
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As for the 40K-based games, I have all three (Doom of the Eldar, Battle for Armageddon, Horus Heresy) and each has their charm and strategic depth. If you can avoid killing the Emperor in the first turn, I think HH is almost there with BfA. Doom requires some real luck on the part of the Eldar player (thematically appropriate, if you know the story.) I may be the only person that actually liked FFG's redesign of HH, but the original is still a solid game (again, barring the first turn mishap) and probably still cheaper, at this point.
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They are sort of like Nethack, for those with good knowledge of PC games. You know going in that the game is going to bend you over and hump you. But this means when it doesn't the victory is that much sweeter, and when it does, as Jackwraith has said, it's sort of funny. They aren't smart games and don't live up to modern standards, but some times screw modern standards i want something that is refreshingly oddball with stupid rules.
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I am also a fan of Necromunda. My roomate at the time and I pooled our money and bought a copy when it first came out set it up and played it that night, then played it again and again. The leveling up is such a hook. Ended up playing until we had to go stock shelves at Target at 4 AM. That was a long 8 hours, but when we got home... yep we played some more. Ahh to be young again.
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- Jackwraith
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He and another friend of ours once got into a three-game campaign of 40K, Epic, and BFG. Space Marines/Imperials vs. Tau vs. Orks. I have both SM and IG fleets/armies for BFG and Epic, so I could fill the story in wherever one Imperial force was more appropriate than the other. It was a blast: 3 totally different play styles in three different games. I barely play any GW games, anymore, which is really a shame considering my ridiculous collection (which I should probably sell, one of these days...)
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