Weekly Trash - StarCraft: The Board Game

blarknob wrote:
This is the best execution of a video game license in a board game I've seen so far. It reflects the nature of the video game without trying to mirror the gameplay.

The order system is really cool and allows for some great plays and the card combat system is really great, giving players more control over their battles than just dice.

The production quality is also amazing proving once again that FFG is awesome.



Weekly Trash is a series of discussion threads in the F:AT forums. Each week a comment from the recommendations database is highlighted here. Don't be shy about posting further comments, questions, answers, funny stories, pictures, "this game sucks", or anything else related to the game.

What do you guys do about the whole "Bases with Air Defense on the VP locations" issue? Stagnates the shit out of a game that otherwise heavily promotes attacking.

This one left me kind of cold. It's a flat out gorgeous production, no doubts there. But it's a weird bird in that the movement and order system feels like you're moving in molasses, wrestling just to get anything done with any sort of pace or urgency, and yet the game speeds toward a conclusion before it feels as though it should.

Really bad combination--can't get enough done, and it's over in a flash. I dig they were shooting for 90 minutes for a big box production, but it feels like its legs were clipped out from under it a bit to make this happen.

SenorOcho wrote:

What do you guys do about the whole "Bases with Air Defense on the VP locations" issue? Stagnates the shit out of a game that otherwise heavily promotes attacking.

Hit a neighbouring area and swarm in next action.
Fucking sensational game. Ken doesn't like it because sending units across plannets is like shipping secret santa presents internationally.

Mr Skeletor wrote:

Ken doesn't like it because sending units across plannets is like shipping secret santa presents internationally.

Yeah, that about sums it up.


I can see it growing on me, but it's a damn site short of "fucking fantastic" in my book. Beautiful? Yeah. Interesting? Yeah. Fun? A little, yeah. But that 'bout sums it up. There just ain't $80 worth of fun inside.

There is a thousand dollars worth of fun inside.
Ok, here is the challenge, explain why nexus ops is the better game.

Nexus Ops has these things going for it:
1) Much easier to teach
2) Slightly shorter

Apart from those why is fat favorite Nexus better than Starcraft?

Simple. Mobility. You're not tripping over logistics to mobilize your troops and obtain objectives. Still about the same timeframe in a 90-minute game but you accomplish much, much more.

Part of that has to do with the scale of Nexus Ops, which is certainly smaller and lighter. In that regard, it's time fits its scale. It just feels as though they wanted to make a intergalactic conquest game fit inside two hours, created an endgame that supports that, but forgot to make up for that fact by increasing your ability to do stuff in a decent timeframe.

You're barely developing parts of your tech tree and moving out from your starting areas when it feels like the game is over. The game simply feels as though it should run about 3 hours, and have an endgame that supports that. I think I'd be a whole lot warmer to it if that were the case. There's just a mismatch of pacing and endgame parameters.


EDIT: Oh, and I prefer the tiered combat system of Nexus Ops waaaaaay more. It is a lot like Samurai Swords/Shogun, which is like the best dice-based combat system ever. The cards feel like they should be a neat twist but they give every combat a sort of "bleh, that's it?" feeling.

Starcraft is one of the best games I've ever played and it thrumps Nexus Ops because of it's story, it's tension, and foremost of all because of the number of significant choices you'll have to make during the game. What units to upgrade? Should I go for air or ground? Will he attack my flank? And so on. And personally I don't understand all the whining about "the game ending just as it begins to start" and "everybody is on the brink of winning." Because that is precicely why the game is so great: because there's a lot of tension in the end rather than TI's at times very long march towards a victory. Yes, it seems that everybody can win in Starcraft because of the Special Victory Conditions, but it's still very much a matter of skill and how you've played the game up until the rather hectic endgame. Finally the game actually scales well from two to six players and feels like the same game no matter what which is rare indeed.

And I'm very excited about the expansion. I hope it'll add new ways of playing (like A Storm of Swords did with AGoT) rather than just add ons and more stuff.

On a sidenote my FLGS is not carrying the game anymore. Every single game had broken units and they got tired of either selling damaged goods or having to spend a lot of time sorting through them and making lists of broken units to send to FFG.

Ken B. wrote:

But it's a weird bird in that the movement and order system feels like you're moving in molasses, wrestling just to get anything done with any sort of pace or urgency, and yet the game speeds toward a conclusion before it feels as though it should.

The only people I hear complain about the order system in STARCRAFT are the ones who get tricked by it. It's the exact same thing as with A GAME OF THRONES. Still, I know that the game can go pretty slow. I once had to play two armies (don't ask why) and was still moving faster than any other player. It was the middle of the night and I was the only one who was still serviceable. The others wanted to continue, too, but it took an quite some time. At game group we once finished a three player game in two hours.

Nah man, I can handle the order system in A Game of Thrones just fine. In fact, I really love that system, totally enjoy it.

The difference is, AGoT is allowed to run to what feels like a "natural" conclusion, at just over three hours. Plus, mobility feels higher because you can march and expand rather quickly, so much so that the board that looked like it had "room for everyone" at the start of the game quickly turns into a tense knife fight only three turns in.

This is one of my favorite "huge" games. It has so much variety, coolness, tension, and meaningful decisions. The only two things that could use some tweaking, IMO, are some of the unit abilities/stats (some tech paths are always better than others, which leaves some units never used), and the end game. The end of the game is often unsatisfying, usually become someone gets their SVC when their neighbor isn't paying attention. In one 3-player game I played, we all kept each other from winning for so long that we got all the way to the last few event cards in the deck (thanks to low conquest point value planets and the last two cards of the deck being "the end draws near" cards.

I did notice in that long game that no one builds any more buildings or modules once they get the ones they need for the few units they want to use for that game, so I don't think not having time to build everything is actually a problem (though you sometimes feel like you want to have everything)

Perhaps so, maybe it's a game that has to grow on you. I think my expectations were off. I would play it again given the chance.

Nexus is better.

First do not discount the simplicity of Nexus Ops takes all of 10 min to explain. It is shorter with 4 than SC with 3, and really scratches the same itch. Simplicity is Nexus Ops' charm.

What I find is the problem with SC is that on the surface you have all these options. The cool units and all that they can do, but in reality you can not ever use them. There is just too much pressure to do the fastest shortest thing. (same issue in the pc game). So you have all these units that tend never to get played, the games just do not last that long.

I am not saying its a bad game, I will play this every time over just about any of the hot eurogames, but it is not a super great game either. If I want a longer game I will take Ti3 over this every time, and if i want a short attack the other guy game I will reach for Nexus Ops 8 times out of 10 over SC.

-M

Starcraft is really good. The hard decisions are best about it. The short amount of time forces you to specialise on one type of tech. That's fine with me, you can try other types in another game. That keeps replay value high (especially with three different armies).

Ken B. wrote:

Simple. Mobility. You're not tripping over logistics to mobilize your troops and obtain objectives. Still about the same timeframe in a 90-minute game but you accomplish much, much more.

Bwwwhaa???
You just basically put a move action down and units around or into that plannet. The only logistics is having a transport connecting the plannets, not hard. I fail to see movement either slow or cluncky like in say T13. I can probably jet across the board in the same time it would take me in nexus.

You're barely developing parts of your tech tree and moving out from your starting areas when it feels like the game is over. The game simply feels as though it should run about 3 hours, and have an endgame that supports that. I think I'd be a whole lot warmer to it if that were the case. There's just a mismatch of pacing and endgame parameters.

It's not hard to extend the games playtime.
That being said I think it's fine as is. The game keeps a tight timeframe making the whole game tense, as opposed to the first half just being an arms build up as most games are. You have to build and attack at every stage of the game.

EDIT: Oh, and I prefer the tiered combat system of Nexus Ops waaaaaay more. It is a lot like Samurai Swords/Shogun, which is like the best dice-based combat system ever. The cards feel like they should be a neat twist but they give every combat a sort of "bleh, that's it?" feeling.

Crazy. Yeah, Nexus' combat system is great for a game of that scale, but the card play requires way more strategy and planning, is a hell of a lot more customisable and simply kicks massive ammounts of ass. Nexus you just roll away hoping your opponent doesn't play a card that will fuck you up.