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× Talk about the latest and greatest AT, and the Classics.

Ameritrash, Themes, and the Future!

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04 Nov 2008 12:15 #13659 by Shellhead
mrmarcus wrote:

I'd love to see a post-apoc game where there's multiple players all scouring the same section of board for resources to build their own little niche of civilization out of the wastes, complete with options for trading and sacking.


Although it isn't technically a boardgame, you should check out Armageddon Empires:

www.crypticcomet.com/games/AE/armageddon_empires.html

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04 Nov 2008 20:56 #13701 by Bullwinkle
Shellhead wrote:

Although it isn't technically a boardgame, you should check out Armageddon Empires.

This game is amazing. Can't say enough good things about it. (And with its style of play, it may as well be a boardgame.)

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05 Nov 2008 08:28 #13707 by mrmarcus
Shellhead wrote:

mrmarcus wrote:

I'd love to see a post-apoc game where there's multiple players all scouring the same section of board for resources to build their own little niche of civilization out of the wastes, complete with options for trading and sacking.


Although it isn't technically a boardgame, you should check out Armageddon Empires:

www.crypticcomet.com/games/AE/armageddon_empires.html


Looks interesting. Thanks for the heads-up!

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05 Nov 2008 11:27 #13710 by Shellhead
You should definitely consider downloading the Armageddon Empires demo. It's a playable game on it's own, though you only get two of the four factions, and a maximum game of 30 turns. I found that I could often finish a two-player game within that 30-turn limit.

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06 Nov 2008 05:07 - 06 Nov 2008 05:13 #13734 by KingPut
I'm planning on printing up the Harry Potter Arkham Horror characters that are posted on BGG next week so I can play AH with my 12 year old daughter next week. I know my daughter Ghost will select her favorite characters Hermani and Harry and I'll pick my favorite adult characters Serious Black and Lupin (also Mad Eye Moody looks pretty cool from the printouts). I would love FFG do Harry Potter using a slightly simplified AH system (I hope somebody from FFG is reading this post). Rather than closing AH gates they can be doing something from Harry Potter. AH locations can be locations from Harry Potter. Spells should also be from Harry Potter. Talk about a killer gateway Ameritrash Game. I just wish they did 2 years ago. FFG I'm preordering this game now if you're listening.
Last edit: 06 Nov 2008 05:13 by KingPut.

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06 Nov 2008 12:14 #13744 by Shellhead
I love that custom content generator for Arkham Horror, Strange Aeons. I made custom characters based on myself and a close friend, then just for laughs made Dracula into a GOO and the four hunters from FoD into AH investigators. More recently, I made custom Heralds out of Titus Crow and Doc Savage. I started making Doc's five men and also Pat Savage into investigators, but stopped when I realized that my friends would never get around to playing any of the custom content. The game itself has such vast replay value that there is no interest in our group in custom characters.

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08 Nov 2008 10:55 #13822 by Grudunza
Has there been a good time travel game yet? I would think an AT styled time travel game could be cool. And has there been a really good pirate game yet? Pirate's Cove and Blackbeard seem to fall short (Merchants & Marauders looks great, but who knows if that will ever get published.) Of course, "pirates" seems like a tired theme, but if it's never really been done justice, then it should still be in consideration...

I was thinking of making a few board games for kids based on classic kids' non-board games like "Capture the Flag" and "Hide and Seek"... I think there could be a series of kids' AT style games like that, much simpler than wargames and things like FoD or War of the Ring, but with characters and goals and interaction and intrigue, based around the sense of adventure you felt as a kid playing those kind of games.

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09 Nov 2008 00:18 #13826 by Jason Lutes
I'm totally with Michael on this -- what I want are more interesting stories of ALL TYPES told through games. What I like about my favorite games (board and otherwise) is the feeling of "emergent narrative," for lack of a better term -- a set of solid mechanics that interact in ways that allow interesting stories to unfold in the pursuit of victory.

I honestly think you can tell nearly any kind of story in a game, but we need more pioneering spirits to explore the possibilities. I write and draw comic books for a living, and before the likes of Maus, the general public thought that the potential of the medium was summed up by daily four-panel gags and superhero stories. In the past 10 years there's been an explosion of diversity in subject matter, and the sense of the medium's potential has broadened. It's not so hard now to convince people that comics can be about anything, but not so long ago the idea would have been considered absurd by most people.

If I had the resources to start my own game company, one of the first things I would do is hire designers to start making games based on public domain literature, like the Wizard of Oz books, War of the Worlds, Sherlock Holmes, Jane Austen, etc. There is some great potential there just waiting to be tapped. After watching the BBC miniseries and reading the book, I became obsessed with making a game out of Pride & Prejudice, and got far enough into the design to believe that it could be done.

Most of my spare time for the past couple of years has been spent developing a pulp hero adventure boardgame (latest prototype to be complete by January 1), and on the back burner is an asymmetrical post-apocalyptic empire builder . In both cases, the mechanics have grown out of the theme, an approach which I believe has the greatest possibility for sparking the kind of innovation in game design some people here are looking for.

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09 Nov 2008 11:21 - 09 Nov 2008 11:25 #13829 by Grudunza
Jason, I'm really looking forward to trying your Thrilling Tales game someday. I'm friends with Tony Dowler and he was telling me about the earlier prototype that he played. Sounds very cool.

The more I think about it, what matters most to me when playing games is the experience. I can have a decent enough experience playing a lot of Euro games and some abstract games... But a lot of times the theme and narrative of a game is what makes it immersive and the experience memorable for me. Two of the games I've played the most lately are Last Night on Earth and Knizia's Lord of the Rings. The former is very theme heavy and the latter is more abstract, but still captures the narrative very well. As co-ops go, Pandemic more directly captures its situation and setting with the gameplay, but LOTR has some dramatic elements that Pandemic doesn't, so I like them both quite a lot in different ways for the experiences they generate.

I have to say that for any game, though, the mechanics are more important than the theme, in the same way that the music is more important than the words in songs. Ideally, both things will be great, or at least work together well enough, but there are a lot of great and timeless songs that have bad or meaningless or unintelligible words (think "Louie Louie" or that "woo hoo" Blur song). It doesn't work the other way around, though, because the best and most insightful lyrics will not be remembered and are essentially wasted if the song is forgettable. Same thing with games... There are a lot of games with pasted on themes, or abstract games with no themes at all, that are still a lot of fun to play. But think how many forgettable or mediocre games there are with great themes (as I mentioned before, there still hasn't been a truly great pirate themed game, has there?). I'm not saying the mechanics should come first... as others have said, basing mechanics around the theme can help with being innovative... but the strength of the mechanics is more important than the theme, ultimately.
Last edit: 09 Nov 2008 11:25 by Grudunza.

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09 Nov 2008 11:46 - 09 Nov 2008 11:49 #13830 by Jason Lutes
Grudunza wrote:

I have to say that for any game, though, the mechanics are more important than the theme, in the same way that the music is more important than the words in songs. Ideally, both things will be great, or at least work together well enough, but there are a lot of great and timeless songs that have bad or meaningless or unintelligible words (think "Louie Louie" or that "woo hoo" Blur song). It doesn't work the other way around, though, because the best and most insightful lyrics will not be remembered and are essentially wasted if the song is forgettable. Same thing with games... There are a lot of games with pasted on themes, or abstract games with no themes at all, that are still a lot of fun to play. But think how many forgettable or mediocre games there are with great themes (as I mentioned before, there still hasn't been a truly great pirate themed game, has there?). I'm not saying the mechanics should come first... as others have said, basing mechanics around the theme can help with being innovative... but the strength of the mechanics is more important than the theme, ultimately.

Yeah, I agree completely. I'm more interested in mechanics that grow out of theme as opposed to mechanics in search of a theme, but in any case, the mechanics need to be solid and engaging. I really enjoy LNoE, but I can't stand Zombies!!!. And I too am a big fan of Knizia's LotR, which is unique in the way its almost utterly abstract mechanics still somehow capture the flavor and drama of the source material.
Last edit: 09 Nov 2008 11:49 by Jason Lutes.

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16 Nov 2008 01:55 #13987 by Grudunza
Some other themes I thought of recently that seem unrepresented or under represented (or are not very well executed with the games that have been done with them)...

- Prison escape. I understand Escape from Colditz is pretty cool, but that doesn't seem to be readily available anymore. But instead of being two teams with the inmates versus the jailers, I'm thinking it might be cool to have it competetive between the inmates, as far as who can escape first successfully. So for example, you might try to sabotage your opponent's attempt to escape, earning them some solitary lock-up time, which gives you the time you need to finish your escape plan and execute it. That kind of thing...

- Worldwide races, involving a variety of means to get around the globe. Around the World in 80 Days is mildly in the ballpark, but something a little meatier would be better. Or a Cannonball Run style car race around the country would be cool.

- The Invisible Man. Nuff said... I have a mechanic in mind for his hidden movement while invisible, and probably something in the style of Fury of Dracula would work for this.

- Castaways on an island trying to survive and be rescued. Seems like an obvious subject for a co-op game, or something with some interesting dramatic elements and hidden goals among the characters as in the show Lost. I've made some notes for a possible design attempt on this subject.

- Trial of the Century. Possibly a CDG type of thing, a la Twilight Struggle/1960, where 2 players represent the prosecution and defense for some kind of trial.

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