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AP and BSG: Fuck shit balls

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11 Jan 2009 03:49 - 11 Jan 2009 03:50 #16526 by Gary Sax
Straight up, whoever is or has ever defended any player who has a case of AP: fuck you. Die in a fire. AP ruins games, period. I just got back from a 4 player, 5 hour long game w/my wife and some married friends of fucking Battlestar goddamn Galactica, which I had heretofore never played but was incredibly excited to play.

All I could think the entire time was how much they were destroying this beautiful game. Even while playing it, I was thinking about how great the game was but how it was being raped and murdered by these AP stooges. My wife was looking at me in askance by the halfway point and I was mostly helpless despite being relatively straightforward about the problem. I asked them if we could go faster and made absolutely sure everyone was crystal clear on the rules. Instead, they picked up their skill cards. Read every one of them in its entirety every single time they pulled skill cards. Yes. That repair card still does the same fucking thing it did before, the last 100 times you fucking picked one up. There's a couple minutes thrown away *every time* they got cards. They bickered between each other about completely meaningless shit. They continually broke the rules about specific card talk. They took total fucking no brainer efficiency decisions and agonized over them forever, even when it was 100% clear we had a revealed cylon and there were right and wrong decisions (I had taken out the sympathizer rules for a first game to speed play).

I can't believe that anyone defends AP players over on TOS. That is such a bunch of fucking beardy stupidass horseshit. How can anyone sit at a table with someone like this? What is wrong with these people? How can you suck the fun out of a game that is so amazingly fucking awesome? I almost even called the game 2/3 of the way through from time, despite BSG being completely unsuitable for early endings. Even as the god damn game went to the wire with a nail biting last die roll finish win to the humans, the mood was like we were being let out of prison between my wife and I.

On the plus side, BSG is totally and completely amazing and my wife's first comments to me as we left the house were basically "I can see how that game is totally great if we weren't playing for 5 hours till 2 in the morning. We need to play again." Nice.

Why can't I live around you guys, so I don't have to do shit like wargame with some Christian dude from TOS I don't feel comfortable swearing or using the lord's name in vain in front of or play BSG with a bunch of AP fun murdering fuckers?
Last edit: 11 Jan 2009 03:50 by Gary Sax.

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11 Jan 2009 04:03 #16529 by Dogmatix
The "card talk" rule (in any game) is extremely difficult when dealing with married couples. But...my condolences on the AP experience. My wife has a pretty good case of it, so I've just learned that there are some games that should *never* hit the table when the two of us are looking for something to play.

I have to say, though....I had no idea BSG could be killed by AP. I was irritated by the fact that the flavor text on the cards was always the same, but I figured it was that way because (1) it's only about the color and numbers and (2) was designed as such precisely to prevent AP from ever being an issue. I had no idea that someone could really agonize over more than 2 or 3 actions in the game at all.

That sounds brutal. But it *is* a heck of a game, nonetheless!

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11 Jan 2009 04:25 #16530 by Count Orlok
I played a 5-player game of Titan last week, with one player taking 15-20 minute turns to each other player's 5-10 minutes. The game would just halt anytime he had to do anything, and when there was a battle, it was even worse. I ended up being very weak with him attacking my Titan stack in the end with overwhelming force. He still was slow as hell and just blurted out "I don't care what you do, just do something!" He got pretty pissed, but at that point he had crossed the line between acceptable playtime and ridiculous AP. God I was pissed. Needless to say, the game was VERY long.

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11 Jan 2009 05:56 #16537 by moss_icon
AP should be punishable by death.

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11 Jan 2009 06:26 #16538 by Mad Malthus
Try dealing with Ponderman when he complains about games that are too long. Ponderman doubles the playtime of anything he plays. Fucker.

What's TOS?

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11 Jan 2009 06:58 #16539 by jur
Replied by jur on topic Re:AP and BSG: Fuck shit balls
there can be a few arguments during the game over strategical issues. Like, we are at 2 fuel and 2 morale and this card makes us choose a -1 on one of them

But AP? I didn't think it was possible. I'm much relieved now that it is possible and idiots also live on planet Galactica

ps TOS is that other site

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11 Jan 2009 10:29 #16551 by billyz
I honestly believe that AP is a direct byproduct some people thinking that if they loose a game it means that they're stupid, and, conversley,it also means that they're smart if they win. So imagine, if you will, how people like these have the almost perverse need to make sure that they make the most optimal move-- even when said fucking move is apparent to everybody.

No, no learning curve for these bright bulbs, no sir. They are thouroughly convinced that a little extra time and their great intellect is all that's needed to prove to the rest of the players that they can beat them at a game they have never played before.

Fun? I thought we played games to see which of us is the smartest.

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11 Jan 2009 10:38 #16553 by hancock.tom
If BSG has a weakness, it is that the table talk rules must be strictly enforced to ensure the game works. If players start in with the "I can do half way on this skill check" bullshit, the game sort of falls apart. Yes, saying you can go halfway on a 10 skill check is the same as saying you have 5 green, dumbass! Thats against the rules. Ditto on people saying what cards they played or doing detailed analysis after skill check cards have been revealed. Get a quick glance at how many of each color were played and what numbers, then move on. If every skill check is accompanied by a 5 minute who is the cylon session, the game will last forever and the fun of socially figuring out who the cylon is will get killed.

You MUST strictly enforce BSG's table talk rules.

That being said, I hate AP and it drives me crazy. Sure, you can increase your chances of winning. Is it worth it if you remove a lot of the fun factor for other players through your slow play? Is it worth it to drag the game out an extra 20 minutes, cutting 20 minutes of game time for the evening? For some people, winning the game is the thing. I like to win too, but if I had to take drastically longer turns than the other player to do so, what does that prove, other than I am more dedicated to winning than they are?

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11 Jan 2009 10:40 #16554 by Bulwyf
Now that was a good rant. To be honest my first couple of plays of BSG were less than stealler due to some AP bullshit. Finally I told my friends to hurry the fuck up and speed it along. Now that everyone has some plays under their belts, the games move a lot faster. It just goes to show you that AP can ruin any game.


-Will

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11 Jan 2009 10:52 #16555 by hancock.tom
Its also tough for the humans to win early on, because they have no idea what they are doing at first. We haven't won yet as humans, partially because we haven't got our shit together and partially because we are all paranoid and end up throwing each other in the brig instead of the cylon.

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11 Jan 2009 10:56 #16556 by Gary Sax
What you just described sounds like fun though. There wasn't even a Cylon for the first half of the game! Then in the second half my wife almost immediately revealed and we still won by the barest of margins possible.

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11 Jan 2009 11:04 #16557 by jur
Replied by jur on topic Re:AP and BSG: Fuck shit balls
we had a great 3 player game yesterday. The Cylon was around for the whole game, but in a 3 player game it is much more difficult to stitch up without getting found out (because of specific card colours). Our good luck was that we managed to make big jumps (2-3-3) and that we barely survived an attempt by the Cylon-president Rosslin to throw us both in the brig, and then survived incoming nukes by the nearest of margins (in both instances I played 'declare emergency' from the brig!) Arrived at earth with 1 fuel and 1 morale.

very different from 4+ player games, but not a bad experience at all

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11 Jan 2009 11:24 #16561 by hancock.tom
I'm looking forward to trying the game with less than 6- we have played with 6 both times. A four player game with 1.5 cylon seems a LOT more winnable. 6 player with 2.5 cylons is tough, and I think 5 player with 2 cylons would be equally tough. We also keep randomly having the engineer dude be a cylon which is tough because 1. its hard to repair things and 2. blue cards are great for the cylon once revealed because they are so rare on the crisis cards - the engineer discards down to three as a cylon and keeps three big blue cards.

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11 Jan 2009 11:34 #16562 by jur
Replied by jur on topic Re:AP and BSG: Fuck shit balls
I've played with 3,4 and 6. all work fine. 3 cylons in 6 is a lot, yet, you had pretty plain sailing until halfway then


I'm surprised by all the reports about heavy damage to Galactica, and I'm quite surprised (apart from the Cylon reveal effect) by it. The military side is not the hardest part, we find.

Yesterday we played with only Starbuck's engineering skill. I think the only repair was me fixing the ftl. There were two damaged vipers due to some crisis card and we never bothered to fix them.

Maybe it changes if Cylons reveal early and press the attacks hard.

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11 Jan 2009 11:35 #16563 by southernman
hancock.tom wrote:

I'm looking forward to trying the game with less than 6- we have played with 6 both times. A four player game with 1.5 cylon seems a LOT more winnable. 6 player with 2.5 cylons is tough, and I think 5 player with 2 cylons would be equally tough. We also keep randomly having the engineer dude be a cylon which is tough because 1. its hard to repair things and 2. blue cards are great for the cylon once revealed because they are so rare on the crisis cards - the engineer discards down to three as a cylon and keeps three big blue cards.

Yeah - we had a 5-player game last week and both the cylons declared well before halftime and they gave us a bloody pasting.

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