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Batman Kickstarter (w/discussion of FOMO sales method)

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28 Feb 2018 15:47 #264171 by Msample
Replied by Msample on topic Batman Kickstarter
Hey some of my favorite and most played games in recent years - WAR OF THE RING, STAR WARS REBELLION, are based on licenses. IPs offer a pre made setting for a game that can help produce a great design. The problem is that too many people - designers as well as buyer suckered into big ticket Kickstarters - focus too much on the IP and not enough on the actual design.

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28 Feb 2018 16:14 - 28 Feb 2018 16:15 #264173 by Michael Barnes
Replied by Michael Barnes on topic Batman Kickstarter
I looked at the campaign and as a big time Batman fan, it’s not hard to fall for it- there are so many characters and not just the marquee ones. Red Hood, Professor Pyg, the Court of Owls, Damian Wayne, GCPD, a special Frank Miller Dark Knight Miniature...all being sold under the illusion that somehow this guys on a grid fighting game will recapture the feeling of experiencing these complex characters with decades worth of stories in the comics.

Further, this is like 5-8 YEARS worth of a PRODUCT LINE that they are selling to you in advance and with no recourse either if you don’t like the base game or if you decide after playing it that you want expansions. Back in the good old days, a game would get published and if it sold well, the publisher would go ahead with expansions and extend the shelf life of the game for years. With Kickstarters like this, the consumer is being asked to gamble on the game’s quality...or be left out. Monolith has ZERO risk on the line here. If the game bombs critically, it won’t matter because they will have taken the money already. And owners will have piles of content that many will doubtfully ever use to its fullest extent.

I would really want to check this out if it were a normal retail release where the publisher was not lying about its infeasibility in distribution. But I am not going to get suckered in for $350 (shipping included) to see if maybe this palette-swapped Conan is better than that game if I go in and buy everything...because if you don’t...you miss out. This Kickstarter is 100% predicated on exploiting FOMO. Fuck these people, and fuck this game.

For $350, I could buy a LOT of the Knight Models Batman and DC miniatures and enough terrain pieces to play it. The figures are higher quality and the game is a proven success.
Last edit: 28 Feb 2018 16:15 by Michael Barnes.
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28 Feb 2018 16:18 - 28 Feb 2018 17:48 #264174 by Jackwraith
Replied by Jackwraith on topic Batman Kickstarter

Stonecutter wrote: If Fantasy Flight can put Imperial Assault in a box for $100 MSRP, $75 online, then there's NO reason a successful Batman game should be more than $100. The whole "We can't make it for that price" is a load of crap. You can't bling it out to the degree that <5,000 or so whales who subsidize all of the board game kickstarters demand, and that's where the quickest buck is, which, whatever, capitalism sucks but that's the rules of the game, so cash in.


Hrm. Not saying you're wrong here, but there is a "production quantity" rule that's often in play. FFG knows that they have a built-in audience for both their games and their advertising, so they have some fairly accurate predictions on how popular their games, and especially their Star Wars games, are going to be. If they can go to their printer with some degree of confidence and say: "I need 50,000 copies of this set of miniatures. Cut me a deal and we'll talk about reprints.", then they can lower their costs in comparison to a smaller entity that doesn't have a built-in audience and doesn't have that effectively free advertising. That smaller company can probably go to their printer and say: "Hey, we need 5000 of these minis." and they'll get a flat rate. Smaller print runs will always cost more per unit than larger ones, almost by definition.

I'm not saying you're wrong that these guys are probably trying to exploit the KS model (and its money-to-burn audience) to the limits. But there are probably greater costs attached to this far more speculative, lower print run model of operation.
Last edit: 28 Feb 2018 17:48 by Jackwraith.
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28 Feb 2018 16:32 #264177 by Shellhead
Replied by Shellhead on topic Batman Kickstarter
There are a couple more things that I consider a minus:

- the playmats are excessive in terms of production value; should have just been flat cardboard
- the energy cubes should have just been cardboard tokens instead of plastic cubes

My decision to buy is going to hinge on the reviews for Conan and Mythic Battles, and the videos of gameplay for this Batman game. If the game design is decent, than I think the price is worth it due to the replay value, quality of minis, and quality of map tiles. If the game design looks too simple or problematic, I will not back this game. It seems like the Conan rulebook was buggy, but maybe they improved significantly with Mythic Battle and there won't be any significant problems with Batman.
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28 Feb 2018 17:54 #264185 by Gary Sax
Replied by Gary Sax on topic Batman Kickstarter

Michael Barnes wrote: Further, this is like 5-8 YEARS worth of a PRODUCT LINE that they are selling to you in advance and with no recourse either if you don’t like the base game or if you decide after playing it that you want expansions. Back in the good old days, a game would get published and if it sold well, the publisher would go ahead with expansions and extend the shelf life of the game for years. With Kickstarters like this, the consumer is being asked to gamble on the game’s quality...or be left out.


Yeah, this is where I'm at with these types of big minis games these days. Nice encapsulation.

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28 Feb 2018 18:28 #264186 by trif
Replied by trif on topic Batman Kickstarter

Shellhead wrote: By contrast, Conan has had ... no tv shows


Really?



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28 Feb 2018 19:00 #264188 by Shellhead
Replied by Shellhead on topic Batman Kickstarter
Sometimes ignorance really is bliss. I wish that I could un-see those.

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28 Feb 2018 19:20 #264189 by Josh Look
Replied by Josh Look on topic Batman Kickstarter
I absolutely love the Conan game (which has a completely reworked rulebook nowadays) and my Batman fandom is the stuff of legends, but I can’t bring myself to drop that much on this. There’s always that chance it never sees the light of day. Hard pass.
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28 Feb 2018 19:21 #264190 by Michael Barnes
Replied by Michael Barnes on topic Batman Kickstarter
There you have it. The top Batman fans on F:AT have given a vote of no confidence.

I am really looking at the Knight Models game now...thinking about getting the Batman and League of Shadows sets.

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28 Feb 2018 19:25 #264191 by ChristopherMD
Replied by ChristopherMD on topic Batman Kickstarter

Shellhead wrote: Sometimes ignorance really is bliss. I wish that I could un-see those.


Shame on you! Conan the Adventurer is one of my all-time favorite cartoons.

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28 Feb 2018 20:49 #264194 by Scott_F
Replied by Scott_F on topic Batman Kickstarter
I didn't look at the Batman KS much and am not a comics guy at all so the theme here does nothing for me. But I will say that I bought Mythic Battles:Pantheon that this company made after Conan and the massive amount of figures and game options in the core game with the KS add-ons is super impressive. I didn't think there was that much game initially, just a bunch of ridiculous minis, but I caved and bought it on ebay after reading so many positive comments. Turns out the game is super fun and awesome looking to boot. Maybe this will apply to Batman too? Dunno but I'm in for a $1 pledge until the PM hits and I get more info.

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28 Feb 2018 21:09 #264195 by Michael Barnes
Replied by Michael Barnes on topic Batman Kickstarter
Eh, give it 48 hours...I’m sure there will be another $300 box full of minis game to pledge on.
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01 Mar 2018 02:48 #264199 by Not Sure
Replied by Not Sure on topic Batman Kickstarter

Shellhead wrote: - the energy cubes should have just been cardboard tokens instead of plastic cubes


But .... they're cubes.

Is that where the money got wasted in this $350 behemoth? Making the "energy cubes" actual cubes?

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01 Mar 2018 06:39 #264201 by Michael Barnes
Replied by Michael Barnes on topic Batman Kickstarter
No, it’s probably the “discs” that come with the Batmobile expansion.

Clear red bingo chips.

NOT VIABLE AT RETAIL

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01 Mar 2018 09:11 #264205 by cropcircles
Replied by cropcircles on topic Batman Kickstarter
Like Colorcrayons said upthread, C3G Heroscape already exists. It has every Bat-ally and villain you could ever want, and it boasts that proven 'Scapey gameplay goodness. I think you could drop $300 on old master sets and $50 on Heroclix figs and come out waaaaay ahead.
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