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Batman Kickstarter (w/discussion of FOMO sales method)
- Legomancer
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The only exceptions to this I can think of for me are Marrying Mr Darcy, which is hilarious, and...uh, I think that's all that I have. Nothing else Star Wars or Firefly or whatever has stuck around for me. Perry Rhodan is licensed but I don't know anything at all about it, so it's just random SF for me. Fallout is licensed, but it's a game based on a game, which I've got more patience for -- I Was also prepared to be very disappointed by it, and wasn't.
If I were a different person (interested in minis and/or Batman) with the same ideas about IP, this Batman game would probably get a pass from me because it's not like it's trying to do anything with a plot or characterization, it's just making action figures fight, but with dice.
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Jackwraith wrote:
Stonecutter wrote: If Fantasy Flight can put Imperial Assault in a box for $100 MSRP, $75 online, then there's NO reason a successful Batman game should be more than $100. The whole "We can't make it for that price" is a load of crap. You can't bling it out to the degree that <5,000 or so whales who subsidize all of the board game kickstarters demand, and that's where the quickest buck is, which, whatever, capitalism sucks but that's the rules of the game, so cash in.
Hrm. Not saying you're wrong here, but there is a "production quantity" rule that's often in play. FFG knows that they have a built-in audience for both their games and their advertising, so they have some fairly accurate predictions on how popular their games, and especially their Star Wars games, are going to be. If they can go to their printer with some degree of confidence and say: "I need 50,000 copies of this set of miniatures. Cut me a deal and we'll talk about reprints.", then they can lower their costs in comparison to a smaller entity that doesn't have a built-in audience and doesn't have that effectively free advertising. That smaller company can probably go to their printer and say: "Hey, we need 5000 of these minis." and they'll get a flat rate. Smaller print runs will always cost more per unit than larger ones, almost by definition.
I'm not saying you're wrong that these guys are probably trying to exploit the KS model (and its money-to-burn audience) to the limits. But there are probably greater costs attached to this far more speculative, lower print run model of operation.
No, I got you, and you're right. My point was more that the licenses have similar value. I know Star Wars is just the biggest thing going right now, but Batman is huge as well. One would think with that amount of recognition they could find a way to publish the games with better margins.
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- Sagrilarus
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God bless them if they can make it work. I likely have more disposable income that 90% of the gaming community and I don't pretend for a minute that I should be buying something like this. Not sure how people just out of school justify this kind of price. Maybe if it's a lifestyle game?
One would think with that amount of recognition they could find a way to publish the games with better margins.
C'mon guys, don't buy their BS about being so strapped for cash. They have a butt-ton of margin on this thing, more-so because they won't have any idle stock when it's over. They have complete control of their margin and they sure ain't passing any savings on to you. Their justification for keeping all the money for themselves is . . . keeping all the money for themselves. I don't blame them, to me that seems like the perfect business model for board gaming. But what they wrote at the end of that 12 foot long kickstarter page about being so over a barrel for money is just out and out lying.
It doesn't hurt that it gets the scare up even more.
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$100 sounds like a bargain these days.
And I'm still a little bit confused about what's causing the high price on this Batman game, it must be the mentioned FOMO and forced scarcity. I mean, it seems most of the game's development and testing was already done (Conan), this appears to be a sort of re-skin. Graphics and cardboard are quick and cheap, so that leaves the sculpts as the biggest expense. I'm with others...for $350 I can get going in many other minis games with better sculpts and longevity. By longevity I mean, the board game market is churn and burn/cult of the new now. How long is a group going to really focus on a Batman board game? I doubt it's as long as one focuses and spends time on their AoS/40k army.
But maybe it's my experience that is an outlier. Board games are a fun diversion, but not worth $350. Especially with so many great ones that come in at 1/8th of that cost. A collection of minis for an AoS type army is also a big hobby project on top of a game. It's a lifestyle hobby. That's a bit easier to spend $350 on...over time.
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I'm still undecided, because I haven't had time yet to go over reviews for their past two games. I don't necessarily care if a given review is positive or negative, I want to understand why the reviewer liked or disliked things. If the game appears to be a good one, then I am willing to pay the price because these nice-looking components will enhance a good game and make it easier to get people to play.
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Making a release KS only ( allegedly ) further heightens the FOMO frenzy. Its really quite clever and the $2.2M raised so far just proves this new business model. Don't think for a minute other publishers aren't taking notice. I predict this will become more common. I'm surprised it hasn't happened sooner to be honest.
Be interesting to see if the publisher "finds" some spare copies after the initial release to milk some more cash out of the deal.
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Still, SH was, and is, a stone cold classic that had been out of print. I guess it remains to be seen how much of a classic this Conan/Batman system is. For me, I'm not super interested in moving abstract cubes around a dashboard especially when, again for me, the simplicity and uncertainty of tossing a die provides enough thrill for combat.
My tastes have certainly pivoted since joining F:AT almost a decade ago though. I almost spent about $20 buying a crayon rail recently with the Mayfair closing announcement...I love crayon rails. However, I knew it would sit on the shelf among a list of other games waiting to get played. I opted to spend that $20 on a box of skulls for modelling bases and such. Those skulls have already been used and will be used pretty consistently from here on out...til I exhaust the box. I'm already getting returns on this purchase.
Also...sad to say...I think I'd just as soon buy a board game at Target these days. There's so much board game crap out now that walking up and down the game store aisles, with its rows and rows of unrecognizable titles, is all a bit overwhelming. I can't keep up with it all. I assume the titles that make it to Target are pretty decent. They've already proven themselves. Good enough to have a lot of fun with the family at least.
If we're skirting editorial discretion in board gaming these days...maybe I allow a big box store to filter the offerings for me?
I dunno...seems I'm going way off point now though...
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Mr. White wrote: When, again for me, the simplicity and uncertainty of tossing a die provides enough thrill for combat.
You still roll dice for combat, which is simple and exciting. The cubes in this, if they function like Conan,are used to represent energy you can expend on your turn (stamina). It's basically a clever action point system where you gain X amount of action points each round, but you can bank some or push hard on certain rounds to do more. It's very cinematic because you can have big turns where you pour a lot of energy into a big attack or multiple moves. It's the crux of what makes Conan shine.
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You're right though. Without any necessary 3d element to game around, all of these _could_ be tokens, chits, or standees. Are the minis worth $300?
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I mean, fuck, I have a preorder in with MMP for like 200+ dollars for two simultaneously printed Greats Campaigns of the American Civil War games. I can't pretend I'm that discerning.
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- hotseatgames
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I checked out the Knight Models Batman minis... they look fantastic. Those are also quite pricey.
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This KS is forcing your hand with an unknown. All in or all out
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- Colorcrayons
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Unpublished stuff riding the hype train to moneyville makes it easy to recommend even poor games over a KS. There is little to no critical knowledge of the game.
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