Front Page

Content

Authors

Game Index

Forums

Site Tools

Submissions

About

KK
Kevin Klemme
March 09, 2020
35142 2
Hot
KK
Kevin Klemme
January 27, 2020
20816 0
Hot
KK
Kevin Klemme
August 12, 2019
7404 0
Hot
O
oliverkinne
December 19, 2023
3967 0
Hot
O
oliverkinne
December 14, 2023
3491 0
Hot

Mycelia Board Game Review

Board Game Reviews
O
oliverkinne
December 12, 2023
2074 0
O
oliverkinne
December 07, 2023
2582 0

River Wild Board Game Review

Board Game Reviews
O
oliverkinne
December 05, 2023
2250 0
O
oliverkinne
November 30, 2023
2494 0
J
Jackwraith
November 29, 2023
3009 0
Hot
O
oliverkinne
November 28, 2023
1971 0
S
Spitfireixa
October 24, 2023
3692 0
Hot
O
oliverkinne
October 17, 2023
2619 0
O
oliverkinne
October 10, 2023
2461 0
O
oliverkinne
October 09, 2023
2289 0
O
oliverkinne
October 06, 2023
2505 0

Outback Crossing Review

Board Game Reviews
×
Bugs: Recent Topics Paging, Uploading Images & Preview (11 Dec 2020)

Recent Topics paging, uploading images and preview bugs require a patch which has not yet been released.

× Talk about the latest and greatest AT, and the Classics.

Batman Kickstarter (w/discussion of FOMO sales method)

More
01 Mar 2018 09:23 #264207 by Legomancer
Replied by Legomancer on topic Batman Kickstarter
There isn't any configuration of stars that would have me backing this, but I just wanted to jump in and echo the anti-IP sentiment. A game based on an established (non-game) property has to jump through a LOT of hoops to get me interested. Being based on a movie or TV show I like is absolutely a red flag unless it proves that it offers something more than "oh hey I remember that!" or "yes, that was a funny line!" I'm not interested in playing out an established plot or with established characters.

The only exceptions to this I can think of for me are Marrying Mr Darcy, which is hilarious, and...uh, I think that's all that I have. Nothing else Star Wars or Firefly or whatever has stuck around for me. Perry Rhodan is licensed but I don't know anything at all about it, so it's just random SF for me. Fallout is licensed, but it's a game based on a game, which I've got more patience for -- I Was also prepared to be very disappointed by it, and wasn't.

If I were a different person (interested in minis and/or Batman) with the same ideas about IP, this Batman game would probably get a pass from me because it's not like it's trying to do anything with a plot or characterization, it's just making action figures fight, but with dice.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
01 Mar 2018 10:11 #264213 by Stonecutter
Replied by Stonecutter on topic Batman Kickstarter

Jackwraith wrote:

Stonecutter wrote: If Fantasy Flight can put Imperial Assault in a box for $100 MSRP, $75 online, then there's NO reason a successful Batman game should be more than $100. The whole "We can't make it for that price" is a load of crap. You can't bling it out to the degree that <5,000 or so whales who subsidize all of the board game kickstarters demand, and that's where the quickest buck is, which, whatever, capitalism sucks but that's the rules of the game, so cash in.


Hrm. Not saying you're wrong here, but there is a "production quantity" rule that's often in play. FFG knows that they have a built-in audience for both their games and their advertising, so they have some fairly accurate predictions on how popular their games, and especially their Star Wars games, are going to be. If they can go to their printer with some degree of confidence and say: "I need 50,000 copies of this set of miniatures. Cut me a deal and we'll talk about reprints.", then they can lower their costs in comparison to a smaller entity that doesn't have a built-in audience and doesn't have that effectively free advertising. That smaller company can probably go to their printer and say: "Hey, we need 5000 of these minis." and they'll get a flat rate. Smaller print runs will always cost more per unit than larger ones, almost by definition.

I'm not saying you're wrong that these guys are probably trying to exploit the KS model (and its money-to-burn audience) to the limits. But there are probably greater costs attached to this far more speculative, lower print run model of operation.


No, I got you, and you're right. My point was more that the licenses have similar value. I know Star Wars is just the biggest thing going right now, but Batman is huge as well. One would think with that amount of recognition they could find a way to publish the games with better margins.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Jackwraith

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
01 Mar 2018 10:12 - 01 Mar 2018 10:20 #264215 by Sagrilarus
Replied by Sagrilarus on topic Batman Kickstarter
I'm just trying to decide when the sizing and pricing will stop growing. It's like 90s porn where the stars all had 50" boob jobs and double botox injections in order to look more female than everyone else. You hit a limit at some point, and the gig collapses. It starts becoming a parody of itself.

God bless them if they can make it work. I likely have more disposable income that 90% of the gaming community and I don't pretend for a minute that I should be buying something like this. Not sure how people just out of school justify this kind of price. Maybe if it's a lifestyle game?


One would think with that amount of recognition they could find a way to publish the games with better margins.


C'mon guys, don't buy their BS about being so strapped for cash. They have a butt-ton of margin on this thing, more-so because they won't have any idle stock when it's over. They have complete control of their margin and they sure ain't passing any savings on to you. Their justification for keeping all the money for themselves is . . . keeping all the money for themselves. I don't blame them, to me that seems like the perfect business model for board gaming. But what they wrote at the end of that 12 foot long kickstarter page about being so over a barrel for money is just out and out lying.

It doesn't hurt that it gets the scare up even more.
Last edit: 01 Mar 2018 10:20 by Sagrilarus.
The following user(s) said Thank You: jpat, Msample, Colorcrayons, ufe20

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
01 Mar 2018 10:20 - 01 Mar 2018 10:21 #264217 by Mr. White
Replied by Mr. White on topic Batman Kickstarter
Remember around 2009 and the $100 Space Hulk hit?

$100 sounds like a bargain these days.

And I'm still a little bit confused about what's causing the high price on this Batman game, it must be the mentioned FOMO and forced scarcity. I mean, it seems most of the game's development and testing was already done (Conan), this appears to be a sort of re-skin. Graphics and cardboard are quick and cheap, so that leaves the sculpts as the biggest expense. I'm with others...for $350 I can get going in many other minis games with better sculpts and longevity. By longevity I mean, the board game market is churn and burn/cult of the new now. How long is a group going to really focus on a Batman board game? I doubt it's as long as one focuses and spends time on their AoS/40k army.

But maybe it's my experience that is an outlier. Board games are a fun diversion, but not worth $350. Especially with so many great ones that come in at 1/8th of that cost. A collection of minis for an AoS type army is also a big hobby project on top of a game. It's a lifestyle hobby. That's a bit easier to spend $350 on...over time.
Last edit: 01 Mar 2018 10:21 by Mr. White.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
01 Mar 2018 10:35 #264219 by Shellhead
Replied by Shellhead on topic Batman Kickstarter
Just focusing on minis, Space Hulk was $100 for 35 minis. This Batman game is $140 for 76 minis. The Batman game has fewer but larger map tiles, and a lot more dice. Plus 49 energy cubes that easily could have been cardboard squares instead.

I'm still undecided, because I haven't had time yet to go over reviews for their past two games. I don't necessarily care if a given review is positive or negative, I want to understand why the reviewer liked or disliked things. If the game appears to be a good one, then I am willing to pay the price because these nice-looking components will enhance a good game and make it easier to get people to play.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
01 Mar 2018 10:35 #264220 by Msample
Replied by Msample on topic Batman Kickstarter
Sag hits the nail on the head. KS has become like an arms race, spurred by the success of games like Gloomhaven. The huge pledge prices are alluring to those who think "wow, something that expensive must be good". Gloomhaven seems like a bargain in comparison to this thing.

Making a release KS only ( allegedly ) further heightens the FOMO frenzy. Its really quite clever and the $2.2M raised so far just proves this new business model. Don't think for a minute other publishers aren't taking notice. I predict this will become more common. I'm surprised it hasn't happened sooner to be honest.

Be interesting to see if the publisher "finds" some spare copies after the initial release to milk some more cash out of the deal.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
01 Mar 2018 10:45 - 01 Mar 2018 11:52 #264223 by Mr. White
Replied by Mr. White on topic Batman Kickstarter
Yeah, it's hard to compare the two (Space Hulk v Batman), but I was just pointing out where we've come as a hobby since then.

Still, SH was, and is, a stone cold classic that had been out of print. I guess it remains to be seen how much of a classic this Conan/Batman system is. For me, I'm not super interested in moving abstract cubes around a dashboard especially when, again for me, the simplicity and uncertainty of tossing a die provides enough thrill for combat.

My tastes have certainly pivoted since joining F:AT almost a decade ago though. I almost spent about $20 buying a crayon rail recently with the Mayfair closing announcement...I love crayon rails. However, I knew it would sit on the shelf among a list of other games waiting to get played. I opted to spend that $20 on a box of skulls for modelling bases and such. Those skulls have already been used and will be used pretty consistently from here on out...til I exhaust the box. I'm already getting returns on this purchase.

Also...sad to say...I think I'd just as soon buy a board game at Target these days. There's so much board game crap out now that walking up and down the game store aisles, with its rows and rows of unrecognizable titles, is all a bit overwhelming. I can't keep up with it all. I assume the titles that make it to Target are pretty decent. They've already proven themselves. Good enough to have a lot of fun with the family at least.

If we're skirting editorial discretion in board gaming these days...maybe I allow a big box store to filter the offerings for me?

I dunno...seems I'm going way off point now though...
Last edit: 01 Mar 2018 11:52 by Mr. White.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Sagrilarus

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
01 Mar 2018 10:50 #264224 by charlest
Replied by charlest on topic Batman Kickstarter

Mr. White wrote: When, again for me, the simplicity and uncertainty of tossing a die provides enough thrill for combat.


You still roll dice for combat, which is simple and exciting. The cubes in this, if they function like Conan,are used to represent energy you can expend on your turn (stamina). It's basically a clever action point system where you gain X amount of action points each round, but you can bank some or push hard on certain rounds to do more. It's very cinematic because you can have big turns where you pour a lot of energy into a big attack or multiple moves. It's the crux of what makes Conan shine.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Shellhead

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
01 Mar 2018 11:00 #264225 by Shellhead
Replied by Shellhead on topic Batman Kickstarter
The other thing that looks padded out heavily in this game is the quantity of the minis. It makes sense that each hero and villain gets a mini, and I suppose some civilians are necessary if you want to include the possibility of innocent bystanders to capture more of the comic book feel. But the henchmen feel very redundant. Was it necessary to represent the henchmen with different sculpts for different weapons? Maybe. Was it necessary to represent the henchmen with different sculpts based on which villain they serve? Not unless you get seriously obsessive-compulsive. I can see why Poison Ivy needed separate plant figures, because she would use big plants instead of henchmen. This is definitely a case where cardboard tokens and standees would have been much more efficient. Smaller, so easier to store. Less expensive materials. Tokens could be double-sided, with henchmen/plants for one villain on one side, and a different villain on the other. But this is Kickstarter, so people expect minis.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
01 Mar 2018 11:28 - 01 Mar 2018 11:28 #264227 by Mr. White
Replied by Mr. White on topic Batman Kickstarter
Unfortunately, I doubt you'll find this game sans minis in the aftermarket to use your wooden disc system with.

You're right though. Without any necessary 3d element to game around, all of these _could_ be tokens, chits, or standees. Are the minis worth $300?
Last edit: 01 Mar 2018 11:28 by Mr. White.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Shellhead

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
01 Mar 2018 11:43 #264229 by Gary Sax
Replied by Gary Sax on topic Batman Kickstarter
That Batmobile expansion looks especially dire. The rest looks pretty full featured, I'm not as down on it as you guys.

I mean, fuck, I have a preorder in with MMP for like 200+ dollars for two simultaneously printed Greats Campaigns of the American Civil War games. I can't pretend I'm that discerning.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
01 Mar 2018 11:52 #264231 by hotseatgames
Replied by hotseatgames on topic Batman Kickstarter
Regarding the components, while they are doing the "component upgrade" stretch goal a little, they definitely could have done it more. Those thugs could have started out as tokens and stretched up to minis. Instead they went full out premium, with a premium price tag.

I checked out the Knight Models Batman minis... they look fantastic. Those are also quite pricey.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
01 Mar 2018 12:23 #264237 by Shellhead
Replied by Shellhead on topic Batman Kickstarter
The Knight Models Batman game looks amazing, but the prices are astounding and the rulebook is apparently terrible. The game mechanics sound okay, but learning them would be a pain. I'm surprised that people are suggesting that would be a better choice than this game.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
01 Mar 2018 12:25 #264238 by Mr. White
Replied by Mr. White on topic Batman Kickstarter
My read of this thread is that the existing minis game allows you to buy what you want when you want.
This KS is forcing your hand with an unknown. All in or all out
The following user(s) said Thank You: Gary Sax

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
01 Mar 2018 12:32 #264239 by Colorcrayons
Replied by Colorcrayons on topic Batman Kickstarter
That, and published stuff is a known quality, good or bad.

Unpublished stuff riding the hype train to moneyville makes it easy to recommend even poor games over a KS. There is little to no critical knowledge of the game.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Moderators: Gary Sax
Time to create page: 0.248 seconds