CMON's KS Hubris and Cthulhu and Madness

There have been some comments here in recent weeks about how this forum is biased against Kickstarter. Would any of those commenters care to defend CMON and their ridiculous Cthulhu figure? No?

I’d be curious to hear why, from a purely gameplay oriented perspective, anyone would back this game at any level. There is virtually no differentiator, no raison d’etre, that I can discern from the available materials. It doesn’t look conceptually different from FFG’s Arkham Files fare. It appears to be built on a pretty standard guys on a grid/dungeon crawl model. Sorry, but the insanity cards and all that have been done before. Simply put, this game looks like the ultimate in redundancy.

Lang’s name sells games but I don’t understand why. CitOW was great. Blood Rage was OK. But beyond that...I’m struggling to call to mind a great Eric Lang design. Rob Daviau did better and more compelling work doing mainstream, corporate games.

For $100, you could go buy the Arkham Horror card game and a few story packs. Or Eldritch Horror and a couple of small box expansions. Or you could buy either of those and then a dungeon crawler of your choice.

Michael Barnes wrote: Seriously, if I brought this idiotic tchotchke into my house, my wife would punch me in the face and then put this thing in the recycling bin. And I would -thank- her for it.

My wife threatened similar violence when I showed her Cthulhu Wars. So, is this the natural progression of what Cthulhu Wars started or something different.

Shellhead wrote: There have been some comments here in recent weeks about how this forum is biased against Kickstarter. Would any of those commenters care to defend CMON and their ridiculous Cthulhu figure? No?

It 700% funded in a day and it's has dominated online board game conversation the entire time...all which they had to pay absolutely nothing for. It's downright masterful manipulation. How can you fault CMON for selling something that people clamored to buy and made sell out?

ubarose wrote:

jeb wrote:

ChristopherMD wrote:

Shellhead wrote:

Legomancer wrote: At the end of the day, 90% of "geek culture" is a dick-measuring contest of who's the biggest fan, demonstrated by how much money they're willing to spend on some dumb shit.

From what I've seen, 90% of nerd culture is mandatory viewing of every single science-fiction, fantasy, and superhero tv show and movie. Some of my nerd friends seem to have a complete inability to say no to any genre entertainment on the screen. They have no choice but to watch all the Harry Potter movies, or the latest Marvel movie, or whatever science fiction shows are on Amazon Prime right now. The merchandise might involve some showing off of acquisitions, but its just an extension of the compulsive watching of nerd shows.

So you guys are saying that 90% of nerds are stupid small-dicked lemmings?

Not, like, OUT LOUD.

Not out loud, because the only difference between the people buying the giant Cthulhu statue game and the rest of us is the amount of disposable income they have. If we had the money, we'd be spending it. Maybe not on Giant Cthulhu, but on other nerd crap - like the Batman game, or Lego Star Wars, or Warhammer stuff, or whatever. Except for Michael Barnes. He'd be blowing it on Mid-Century Modern American Girl furniture.

I am fairly certain that there is a vast difference between how nerds see themselves and how the greater world sees nerds. To my friends I am likely a nerd but to nerds I’m most assuredly not. I haven’t seen Avengers Infinity War or Black Panther. I don’t own any Gundam, etc.

Barnes is a nerd but he’s a GW nerd. It’s fascinating to me that a guy who spends vast sums on GW stuff is casting stones at people willing to spend vast sums on Cthulhu dolls. Not casting stones myself as I have my own shit I spend my money on, mostly bourbon and guitars, and even an occasional game. I guess that makes me a guitar nerd.

All I know is that I am now quite confused over my nerd identity because I, too, am now interested in finding some mid century American Girl doll furniture.

Shellhead wrote: There have been some comments here in recent weeks about how this forum is biased against Kickstarter. Would any of those commenters care to defend CMON and their ridiculous Cthulhu figure? No?

While not vocal, I've most likely backed more Kickstarters than anyone else here. And no, I will not defend this ridiculous statue.

Though, in all honesty, I've only backed two CMON Kickstarters, none of them being Zombicide, so I'm probably not the one that would defend what they do. Everything I tangentially saw about this campaign screamed not interested to me.

SuperflyTNT wrote: Barnes is a nerd but he’s a GW nerd. It’s fascinating to me that a guy who spends vast sums on GW stuff is casting stones at people willing to spend vast sums on Cthulhu dolls.

Prince Pedrito has a point. The collective FAT/TWBG hivemind has apparently decided every new GW product is a SUPER/AMAZING/FANTASTIC elite product for elite gaming minds, and the same hivemind has decided this latest (admittedly goofy/stupid) Cthulhu statuette is everything wrong with gaming. I'm not sure why the world (gaming or otherwise) needs to be such a binary experience for some people.

@Barnes - the reason someone would back this is because it's cheaper than Mansions of Madness and the miniatures are way fucking better.

(I'm not backing and totally content with my MoM collection).

The thing that bothers me most about the huge Cthulhu is that it's tied to gameplay with a huge final battle sequence expansion. Either this final battle is a key part of the experience and something every player would want, or it's a worthless addition with not enough playtesting. Either option seems unsatisfactory.

They should include a cardboard 2D token and the gameplay content in the form of a stretch goal or with the pledge and have the mini as an addition. They'd never do that though because one thing they understand that many people who criticize them don't, is that their backers are willing to fork over huge amounts of money for minis, but only when they're tied to gameplay additions.

@Shellhead - Sure, that'll happen right after all the "get off my lawn" folks defend SeaFall.

I think the Kickstarter lines on this forum are becoming TWBG's version of Republican/Democrat. Fuck that. It's not an all or nothing proposition.

...one egregiously stupid thing doesn't make everything else pushed through kickstarter bad by association.

fightcitymayor wrote:

SuperflyTNT wrote: Barnes is a nerd but he’s a GW nerd. It’s fascinating to me that a guy who spends vast sums on GW stuff is casting stones at people willing to spend vast sums on Cthulhu dolls.

Prince Pedrito has a point. The collective FAT/TWBG hivemind has apparently decided every new GW product is a SUPER/AMAZING/FANTASTIC elite product for elite gaming minds, and the same hivemind has decided this latest (admittedly goofy/stupid) Cthulhu statuette is everything wrong with gaming. I'm not sure why the world (gaming or otherwise) needs to be such a binary experience for some people.

I have only sipped the GW Kool-aid. I like Silver Tower, but I'm not into the painting lifestyle, so I bought a stripped copy on eBay and made wooden tokens to replace the missing minis. I bought Hammerhal (stripped), the Hero card set, and the Adversary card set, and made tokens for all of them. I also have a partially painted Space Hulk 3rd that has been gathering dust for several years. And I bought Death Angel with all the expansions. That's it. I thought that Chaos in the Old World was just okay, and most GW products aren't interesting enough to justify the elaborate minis and the cost that they bring.

lj1983 wrote: ...one egregiously stupid thing doesn't make everything else pushed through kickstarter bad by association.

The rabid enthusiasm for the egregiously stupid thing points to a troubling new direction for KickSucker. This Cthulhu statue is not an outlier, it's a turning point.

true, and I'm no kickstarter apologist, but calling people out to defend it is a dick move.

No, it doesn’t and this suggestion of their being a binary standard is pretty off base given the support myself and others here have shown for several top tier KS products. I’m doing an interview with people doing the Gothic Game reprint and after talking to them I’m willing to give them the benefit of a doubt- and it is actually a good case for crowdfunding given that it’s a small reprint likely only appealing to a small number of people. It’s a very different sort of thing than the shovel ware that Kickstarter mills like CMON are pushing out there.

But you know what, if someone is able to buy the solid gold house and the rocket car by exploiting gamers’ insatiable desire to buy things, more power to them. It’s just a shame that this mentality has hijacked both the producer and consumer sides of the hobby.

I’ll be the first to state that spending tons and tons of money on GW stuff is stupid, and that being into GW stuff is like having Stockholm Syndrome.

Is there any actual gameplay purpose to the giant fuck-off mini that makes the "final battle" thing completely dependent on it? It seems really shitty to include some final showdown gameplay bits only with the huge statue if the statue basically just sits there while you do stuff in front of it. If it functions as some kind of game board, but you could do the same thing with a cardboard board, then just sell that for a normal price, and offer the statue as an upgrade thing.

I'd be willing to bet that if they just offered the huge statue as some kind of ridiculous "pimp your game, show off your minis-peen" thing, they'd sell almost as many of them as they'll sell under the current model.