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Kemet vs Blood Rage

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10 Sep 2018 12:15 - 10 Sep 2018 12:26 #281382 by manolaren
Hi.

I have 2 kids aged 9 and 13 years old and we (4 members) play games like Stone Age, Istanbul, 7 Wonders, Ticket to Ride, Raiders of the North Sea, Dominion etc.

We want to buy a war game or at least a game that will allow to battle a lot between us. Having a small tour in sites and watching some videos and reviews, we end up choosing 2 games as the most suitable for us. Kemet and Blood Rage. We also checked Cyclades but without Titans expansion is not that great and with it, goes overpriced.

Which one of the Kemet and Blood Rage do you consider as the most appropriate for our needs, taking notice also the age of the kids? Which takes the most time to complete and which one do you think as the best game overall?

Thank you very much!
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10 Sep 2018 12:55 #281383 by Colorcrayons
Replied by Colorcrayons on topic Kemet vs Blood Rage
Kemet to answer all of your questions above.

Except time, Kemet is shorter than blood rage.

The two do the really compare when looking at it from the classic "Dudes on map" concept.

Definitely. Kemet is the Droid you seek.
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10 Sep 2018 13:05 - 10 Sep 2018 13:06 #281385 by Josh Look
Replied by Josh Look on topic Kemet vs Blood Rage
Kemet fits your needs better, but I’m in the minority of people here who thinks it’s appeal is short lived. The tech track has enough options that are definitely better than others and most games I played came down to who got those. It’s also no where near as good as Cyclades, which might be a better option for you. The base game is enough, it’s a superb game.

I like Blood Rage best, but again, doesn’t fit your needs as well.
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10 Sep 2018 14:27 #281393 by Erik Twice
Replied by Erik Twice on topic Kemet vs Blood Rage
I don't think either game is suitable for kids.

I also believe that Blood Rage is, in some way, broken. Everytime I've played it, the game has exploded because any small mistake causes a runaway leader. And your kids aren't going to play at such a high level that they hate-draft all the game-breaking combos.
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10 Sep 2018 14:35 #281394 by manolaren
Replied by manolaren on topic Kemet vs Blood Rage

Erik Twice wrote: I don't think either game is suitable for kids.

I also believe that Blood Rage is, in some way, broken. Everytime I've played it, the game has exploded because any small mistake causes a runaway leader. And your kids aren't going to play at such a high level that they hate-draft all the game-breaking combos.


Then do you think that maybe Cyclades is more suitable for kids? Do you think its less punishing if you make some "wrong" decisions?

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10 Sep 2018 17:16 #281407 by ubarose
Replied by ubarose on topic Kemet vs Blood Rage

manolaren wrote:

Erik Twice wrote: I don't think either game is suitable for kids.

I also believe that Blood Rage is, in some way, broken. Everytime I've played it, the game has exploded because any small mistake causes a runaway leader. And your kids aren't going to play at such a high level that they hate-draft all the game-breaking combos.


Then do you think that maybe Cyclades is more suitable for kids? Do you think its less punishing if you make some "wrong" decisions?


No, I think it is more possible to play Kemet as a tactical game (i.e "wrong decisions" impact your current turn, but aren't going to cripple you for the rest of the game) than it is to play Cyclades as one. The barrier you are running up against is that the cognitive ability to think strategically (i.e. predict future board state and not make those crippling "wrong decisions") typically doesn't kick in until age 10, and is fully developed around the age of 13. So what you are looking for is a DoaM that leans more towards the tactical side so that your 9 year old's child's brain isn't outrageously disadvantaged or frustrated playing against those 3 adult brains.

I think it is entirely possible for a bright, 9 year old gamer kid to play Kemet, because it is so fast paced, and the board state changes so quickly that the tactical game is very important. Also buying the monsters is really cool. You might have to coach or guide a bit, but if your kid enjoys fighting with all the cool minis, they will have fun.
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10 Sep 2018 18:18 - 10 Sep 2018 18:22 #281408 by Frohike
Replied by Frohike on topic Kemet vs Blood Rage
You should probably be looking at Nexus Ops.

Just throwing that out there.

I think you would get more mileage out of it since it's more tactically forgiving but has a decent strategy layer with Rubium generation & allocation (affecting where you strike out and the constitution of your forces) & working on your hidden objectives.

Bonus: it needs zero goddamned expansions.
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10 Sep 2018 18:21 #281410 by Colorcrayons
Replied by Colorcrayons on topic Kemet vs Blood Rage

Frohike wrote: You should probably be looking at Nexus Ops.

Just throwing that out there.


Seconded. I wanted to suggest that originally, but assumed that since research had been done, they had noticed it's presence.
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10 Sep 2018 18:53 #281411 by Josh Look
Replied by Josh Look on topic Kemet vs Blood Rage

Colorcrayons wrote:

Frohike wrote: You should probably be looking at Nexus Ops.

Just throwing that out there.


Seconded. I wanted to suggest that originally, but assumed that since research had been done, they had noticed it's presence.


Thirded. Nexus Ops FTW.
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10 Sep 2018 19:06 #281412 by Frohike
Replied by Frohike on topic Kemet vs Blood Rage
To be fair, I'm having a hard time finding a retail copy. It looks like there are still a few for sale on the BGG market. Amazon is a scalper wasteland & the OLGSs don't have it. Assuming FFG is dropping this along with Wiz War, I'm guessing we'll see another publisher pick these up. In the meantime, this mainstay seems to be roiling under the churn.
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10 Sep 2018 21:11 #281417 by WadeMonnig
Replied by WadeMonnig on topic Kemet vs Blood Rage
I went to link to the Watch It Played Gameplay video of Kemet to show that it can be played with a younger player. Low and Behold, when I was trying to find his son's age in the comment, I came across Manos's comment in the video...so, suffice to say, I guess you already know about it :)
I think maybe Cyclades would be easier for a younger player but it is also frustrating when they know what they want to do but don't win the favor of the god that allows them to take the action. Titan expansion isn't a requirement unless you WANT constant conflict. It really makes it into the game everyone THOUGHT it was when they first saw it...conflict and conquest.
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11 Sep 2018 01:42 - 11 Sep 2018 05:11 #281424 by manolaren
Replied by manolaren on topic Kemet vs Blood Rage
I cant find a copy of Nexus Ops so its out of the picture anyway.

As for the rest, according to your comments and some new videos i have seen, i m now between Kemet and Cyclades. I think Blood Rage doesn't fit our needs.

I don't know exactly why, but as i see the base game of Cyclades, i feel its a bit boring. Maybe i m wrong but i feel it that way. Videos showing the game alongside Titans expansion, makes you feel you watch a whole different and better game.

So right now i m thinking that while i don't like Kemet more than Cyclades in general, i prefer it as a base game. If i decide to give some more money to buy Titans, then Cyclades would be my pick. On the other hand i don't know if its wise giving a 100 euros for a game or at least for Cyclades.

Big mess...

*or maybe i should just go for Small World...

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11 Sep 2018 10:51 #281428 by Jackwraith
Replied by Jackwraith on topic Kemet vs Blood Rage
Actually, the base game of Cyclades is quite good. There are a lot of decisions to be made, but there is still DOAM combat, both ships and men. I would favor Cyclades over Kemet, Titans or no Titans.

On your last point, I would say Small World is not what you want. There isn't really "combat", per se. It's just about having more tokens in one place than the other player.
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11 Sep 2018 11:18 #281429 by manolaren
Replied by manolaren on topic Kemet vs Blood Rage

Jackwraith wrote: Actually, the base game of Cyclades is quite good. There are a lot of decisions to be made, but there is still DOAM combat, both ships and men. I would favor Cyclades over Kemet, Titans or no Titans.

On your last point, I would say Small World is not what you want. There isn't really "combat", per se. It's just about having more tokens in one place than the other player.


And what about Cyclades+Titans vs Blood Rage? Do you still favor Cyclades? Im asking because in a local store Cyclades+Titans costs the same money as Blood Rage base game at ~80 euros. What do you think?

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11 Sep 2018 12:22 #281430 by Jackwraith
Replied by Jackwraith on topic Kemet vs Blood Rage
Hrm. In that case, I'm tempted to say Blood Rage, but that's more of a personal preference than anything else, because I love me some card drafting (it's the only way to play M:TG, IMO.) However, if you're going to be playing this game regularly, it would be hard to pass up the Cyclades + Titans deal, since you can play Cyclades many times and be perfectly happy, but then introduce the Titans expansion and play the same game, but in a different way (different map, team play, Titans can move without Ares, etc.) Blood Rage has tons of replayability, but the experience won't transform the way adding Titans to Cyclades does.

Trying to keep your youngest player in mind, there's going to be some complexity that he may struggle with in either choice. The auction is the heart and soul of Cyclades. Making the right choice there can predetermine how your game proceeds and it's a different gambling mindset in the auction than in making a risky attack. OTOH, card drafting takes some practice. You have to be conscious of what cards you're feeding the other players in BR and what you expect to come back to you. It's very easy to send yourself barreling down a path with not much exit in the third round if you don't plan ahead in the draft. If he's OK just playing the games, regardless of victory, then all of this is moot.

The other thing to keep in mind is victory conditions. Blood Rage is about points and it's possible to put some major card combinations together that shoot you ahead in the final tally, but it's about doing the math, in addition to anticipating your opponents' actions. Cyclades, OTOH, is about achieving a definitive game condition: two metropoli. (Don't listen to those barbarians and their "metropolises".) Cyclades is often won in a similar manner to Blood Rage, in that one swift combo of cards gets you where you need to go and part of the auction and the game is about opening the door to that combo. But it's about setting up conditions, rather than adding up points. It's up to you to know what would hold more appeal/be more accessible to your boys.
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