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WotC selling Magic on Amazon

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25 Sep 2018 18:44 #282264 by Msample
this just happened late last week:

dsgcw.blogspot.com/2018/09/another-shoe-drops-for-magic.html

Basically, not only will you be able to buy Magic at Amazon, but the price is basically undercutting every FLGS out there. $95 per box on Amazon when wholesale is around $80...that ain't good.

For well diversified stores, this will still hurt I bet. For stores that are basically surviving on Magic and Mtn Dew....uh oh.

Usually brands sell on Amazon at or close to close to MSRP. Not here. And margins were already tight as it is.
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25 Sep 2018 18:56 #282265 by dysjunct
What are they thinking? Where exactly are people going to play MtG if a bunch of game stores close? Coffee shops aren't going to put up with five dozen nerds for five hours on Friday nights, half of whom don't buy anything.
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25 Sep 2018 21:40 #282270 by Gary Sax
Yikes, this is big! Seems soooo dumb...

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25 Sep 2018 22:32 #282273 by Cranberries
Must the sponge of our sad little nerd social life be wrung free of every drop of capital?

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25 Sep 2018 22:47 - 25 Sep 2018 22:48 #282274 by Sagrilarus
Most Americans are more than 25 miles away from a game store. Wizards seems to think they'll do better overall. They're calling this an "experiment".
Last edit: 25 Sep 2018 22:48 by Sagrilarus.
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26 Sep 2018 05:35 #282287 by Erik Twice
Dangerous move by Wizards. I mean, what do they gain from this? Are they really going to make more money selling through Amazon than they would through normal retailers, which support the game?

Ah, Wizards. Won't get rid of the reprint list but they do this.

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26 Sep 2018 07:24 #282289 by GorillaGrody
Recently read a thread (I'm not going to link to because it's on Reddit and may just as likely be marketing cointel) purportedly written by a LSG owner, saying that they're supported by secondary market sales, so this switch to WOTC's strategy is sort of a big deal, but not really. I don't know. Most LSGs I know are getting by on a wing and a prayer anyway, and all it would take is a nudge in the wrong direction to put them under.

I've never been a player of Magic, but whenever I think about it as a business model one might propose at the outset, my brain melts slightly.

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26 Sep 2018 08:56 #282294 by Shellhead
This is desperate greed. In the short term, Wizards can pump up their financial statements with the Amazon sales. In the medium term, they will crush the stores where most games of Magic are actually played. In the long term, Magic is doomed because we will all jack our brains directly into the internet for fun.

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26 Sep 2018 09:05 - 26 Sep 2018 09:06 #282297 by Sagrilarus
We don't have half the information that WOTC does on this, and I'd wager they're looking at numbers that are different from what we're assuming. I think a lot of Magic gets played on dining room tables, and that there are additional costs associated with going through retailers instead of direct to consumers. Each pack may be significantly more profitable selling through Amazon, and they may sell a lot more of them. The LGS is on your phone now.

And I question how elastic the tournament scene is. In the same announcement WOTC announced that they're pushing out new software for events, and it may be that they're looking to local game stores to charge players for tournament play, effectively moving the support of LGSs off of WOTC's books and onto individual players. Players may be ok with that, may be willing to pony up money for tournaments and Friday night sessions. If that's the case the LGS scene continues, serious players pay more money which they likely have and may be willing to part with.

I don't think we know half of what WOTC does and they may be making a very rational decision here. If not, they close the store and go back to business as usual. From there perspective a blip on the spreadsheet.
Last edit: 26 Sep 2018 09:06 by Sagrilarus.
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26 Sep 2018 09:28 #282300 by Erik Twice
The issue is that, ultimately, a card game that you can't play in public is a dead game. All those kitchen table players depend on the existence of a large support ecosystem. If the game was like a boardgame you played only with your friends, it would die in less than a year.

And, really, does Magic need to make more money? Is it really the big concern here? I think the long-term health of the game is a much, much more serious concern than a small increase of the margins in retail sales. Because this is not going to increase demand, it's just going to increase margins slighty.
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26 Sep 2018 10:49 #282309 by Msample
Wizards has had the luxury of operating under their own set of rules for a long time. When you have an overwhelming market share in a category ( CCG ) which is also a good chunk of overall game store sales, I guess you can do whatever you want from their perspective . In an era where most major publishers have put MAP pricing policies into place, Wizards has not only refused to do so , but made this move which flies in the face of what other major brands are doing. This is on top of shrinking margins the last few years by raising wholesale prices while holding retail prices flat . Say what you want about Asmodee and all the whining about their MAP a few years ago, but they didn't hamstring dealers like this will. Sure, some stores don't rely on it as much due to focusing on other categories or singles vs new releases . But no other game comes even close to having the same support level that Magic does from the LGS standpoint. Between entry fees for events as well as buying new releases, sleeves etc - why bother when you have Amazon Prime w/free shipping right to your door ? Most other brands on Amazon at least hold MSRP when selling direct.

This could be a test they'll reel back after seeing the effects. But short term it's a nut punch to stores that have helped grow Magic to want it is today.
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26 Sep 2018 10:51 #282311 by Sagrilarus

Erik Twice wrote: The issue is that, ultimately, a card game that you can't play in public is a dead game. All those kitchen table players depend on the existence of a large support ecosystem. If the game was like a boardgame you played only with your friends, it would die in less than a year.


I'm not sure that's the case for Magic. There is a lot of casual play, and I don't think Wizards of the Coast is giving up on competition play. They're just giving up on MSRP sales at third party vendors being the primary delivery channel for cards.

Erik Twice wrote: And, really, does Magic need to make more money? Is it really the big concern here? I think the long-term health of the game is a much, much more serious concern than a small increase of the margins in retail sales. Because this is not going to increase demand, it's just going to increase margins slighty.


It's going to increase margins slightly, but it may increase sales dramatically. Selling direct at MSRP hobbles WOTC. Opening the opportunity to sell to hundreds of thousands of players directly may produce significantly more revenue. Don't know. Clearly WOTC thinks this is worth a shot or they wouldn't be doing it. My guess is they have more information than they're letting on.

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26 Sep 2018 11:07 #282314 by ChristopherMD
Do we know if Magic sales have dropped off in recent years? This could be an attempt to revive sales numbers that LGS's weren't making anymore.
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26 Sep 2018 11:18 - 26 Sep 2018 11:29 #282315 by stoic
Replied by stoic on topic WotC selling Magic on Amazon
WoTC may perceive this as a last chance to cash in on a fading intellectual property. The marketplace is now filled with copycats, some more innovative than what's being produced by WoTC. Moreover, It's just too late to protect and invest future capital in what was once a practical monopoly for WoTC but isn't any longer. www.quietspeculation.com/2014/05/underst...it-in-plain-english/ In sum, Magic the Gathering has just run its commercial course.

In addition, as suggested by some of the comments above, WoTC reaped the benefits of free capital investment which fostered the creation of Magic the Gathering player forums created by local game stores--these game stores footed the bill for WoTC. Moreover, WoTC benefited from countless unpaid volunteers who offered their free labor to support Magic the Gathering. This enabled WoTC to reap massive profits. Of course, all of this has evaporated somewhat when WoTC won a lawsuit against a Magic the Gathering judge who suddenly realized that he had worked for free for an evil corporation which made millions of dollars off of the game that he loved and his free labor--he claimed that his labor was exploited and that all Magic the Gathering judges were abused by WoTC. Magic the Gathering can no longer be sustained without the free lunches eaten by WoTC/Hasbro on the backs of local game stores and the volunteer labor base.

arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2017/08/real...the-gathering-judge/ www.leagle.com/decision/infdco20170825f02
Last edit: 26 Sep 2018 11:29 by stoic.
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26 Sep 2018 11:31 #282316 by Colorcrayons
Magic has been a bit of a mess recently.

Consumers have had diminished card quality to contend with. Not just slightly notable decrease either, but rather significant. Instead of burning subpar stock, WotC release it anyways.

Gone are the days of fine cardboard rectangle crack.

Then you have the old guard feeling slighted by lots of reprints of cards outside of the reserved list, causing secondary market to be tenuous.

Then you have increased pricing of their products.

Their most recent set is direct only, meaning you have to buy direct from WotC for $250 per box for the ravnica set, that many aren't happy with anyways.

Now we have the undercut of the local middleman that supports the game.

I have been both the kitchen table gamer and also nearing professional level with magic, as well as a level 1 judge for a time.

There is merit in thinking the majority of players are casual kitchen table players. But that environment is reinforced by the hardcore players who participate in tourneys.

Killing the lgs sales is one step in the wrong direction that could put yet another dent in the consumers confidence of WotC. Because that confidence plays a major role in sales as well. If there was no confidence, every collection would be worthless.

They do a lot of experimenting, but if you pass off the lgs's enough, then your hubris comes before the fall.

WotC is not too big too fail.

Bean counters are not always right. The last fifteen years of GW are proof of that in the gaming world.

Their hubris of "The Porsche of miniature gaming" nearly destroyed them.
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