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Is there a good full-scale WWII game (not Axis and Allies)
Does anyone have any suggestions?
I play all manner of games, short ones, long ones, euro, ameritrash, doesn't matter.
Some Ameritrash "wargames" I like are super complex ones like Kevin Wilson's Civilization, War of the Ring or Corey Koneickza's Runewars, mid-weight games like Battlelore: 2nd Edition or Warhammer: Diskwars, and lighter games like Summoner Wars or Battle for Hill 218.
Some recent findable releases
-Quartermaster General---people love this one, I think it's the best fit to what you want tbh
Triumph and Tragedy is a good 3 player fit but it's only Europe right now. Still think this is a good choice and it's well regarded---if you want to add the Pacific you'll need to wait, they're working on a sequel which I'm sure will have combined rules.
-Cataclysm is more of a high level what-if game but lots of people like it and it doesn't take forever.
-Europe and Asia Engulfed are OOP but they do this when taken together. Considerably more complicated than those AT mid-weights but not terrible.
-Totaler Kreig/Dai Senso combination is getting to the extremely complicated end but is well thought of in general with its card system for what ifs.
To sum up, definitely try Quartermaster General imo.
It’s been more than a decade since I last played it and I can’t remember it well enough to give a solid recommendation but it’s certainly in the ballpark of what you’re looking for and it’s dirt cheap to pick up.
Gary Sax wrote: Triumph and Tragedy is a good 3 player fit but it's only Europe right now. Still think this is a good choice and it's well regarded---if you want to add the Pacific you'll need to wait, they're working on a sequel which I'm sure will have combined rules.
T&T is a great game, with a good rules weight, pretty in-line with several of the games you mentioned above. It isn't really WWII, more like start in 1936 and see what happens. but excellent for 3 players.
there are many WWII games of smaller scope(unit size or campaign focused) that fit well into that range of games as well.
There are games that are ETO or PTO without being both that might interest you. I'll need to look up the names. Pacific naval games in particular. More warrish than trashish, generally play 2. That may not be a good fit. War in the Pacific is the one I can remember off the top of my head, plays more than 2, but I think it's an all-day play.
Leave Tunnels & Trolls out of this. Setting is wrong.
T&T is a great game.
It is a stripped down World in Flames. It sits close to Axis and Allies in complexity and probably is pretty close to what you are looking for.
It *is* unbalanced but it will probably take you 4+ games to really figure this out. (And even so, it's only unbalanced if the allies are playing as a single unified team.) Importantly, you'll enjoy those playings as the underlying mechanisms work well.
It *may* be outdated, but there's a reason it's still discussed 40 years after its publication. Since it can be had so cheaply, I think you should give it a try.