Is there a good full-scale WWII game (not Axis and Allies)

Hey guys, for a long time I've been interested in acquiring some WWII games. I got Memoir 44 and enjoy it quite a bit, but it only allows you to play individual battles. What I want is a game that allows me to play all of WWII, in the vein of Axis and Allies. I thought about just taking the plunge on A&A, but it's rather expensive (around $140 for the full version of 1940) and I've read that it's rather unbalanced and outdated.


Does anyone have any suggestions?

I play all manner of games, short ones, long ones, euro, ameritrash, doesn't matter.

Some Ameritrash "wargames" I like are super complex ones like Kevin Wilson's Civilization, War of the Ring or Corey Koneickza's Runewars, mid-weight games like Battlelore: 2nd Edition or Warhammer: Diskwars, and lighter games like Summoner Wars or Battle for Hill 218.

This is a big area in wargaming. The problem is finding a game that isn't way above the sort of ameritrash you've been playing in terms of complexity. Full world strategic games tend to be absolutely bonkers lifestyle games you shouldn't try to play (e.g. World at War). I'll give you some wargame recommendations but keep in mind *I have not played all these* so hopefully someone will come by.

Some recent findable releases
-Quartermaster General---people love this one, I think it's the best fit to what you want tbh

Triumph and Tragedy is a good 3 player fit but it's only Europe right now. Still think this is a good choice and it's well regarded---if you want to add the Pacific you'll need to wait, they're working on a sequel which I'm sure will have combined rules.

-Cataclysm is more of a high level what-if game but lots of people like it and it doesn't take forever.

-Europe and Asia Engulfed are OOP but they do this when taken together. Considerably more complicated than those AT mid-weights but not terrible.

-Totaler Kreig/Dai Senso combination is getting to the extremely complicated end but is well thought of in general with its card system for what ifs.

To sum up, definitely try Quartermaster General imo.

I would suggest trying Glen Drovers Attack! which you can find stateside for less than twenty dollars these days. Full scale war with lots of plastic like A&A, simple rules and amenable playing time, but adds in an economic and political element to give you a bit extra to chew on. You should try to get the expansion at the same time.

It’s been more than a decade since I last played it and I can’t remember it well enough to give a solid recommendation but it’s certainly in the ballpark of what you’re looking for and it’s dirt cheap to pick up.

Gary Sax wrote: Triumph and Tragedy is a good 3 player fit but it's only Europe right now. Still think this is a good choice and it's well regarded---if you want to add the Pacific you'll need to wait, they're working on a sequel which I'm sure will have combined rules.

T&T is a great game, with a good rules weight, pretty in-line with several of the games you mentioned above. It isn't really WWII, more like start in 1936 and see what happens. but excellent for 3 players.

therewillbe.games/forum/12-wargames/198476-triumph-and-tragedy

there are many WWII games of smaller scope(unit size or campaign focused) that fit well into that range of games as well.

Quartermaster General is very engaging and very quick. Each country plays a little differently from the others. But, the designer's goal was to have a game finish in under 90 and he achieved it. This won't be an evening's play for you. It does what it does very well, I'll be curious to see if what it does is what you want. Cheap enough to try out for sure.

There are games that are ETO or PTO without being both that might interest you. I'll need to look up the names. Pacific naval games in particular. More warrish than trashish, generally play 2. That may not be a good fit. War in the Pacific is the one I can remember off the top of my head, plays more than 2, but I think it's an all-day play.

T&T is a great game.

Leave Tunnels & Trolls out of this. Setting is wrong.

Thurns and Taxis is great with the Panzer Attack! expansion

I have not played this, but War Room looks so damn cool. I tried to coerce a guy in my game group to get it but he didn't fall for it.

boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/229713/war-room

Take a look at Blitz! A World in Conflict from Compass Games. It's played on one map sheet (about 2' by 3'), has around 400 big counters (5/8" and 3/4"), area based, has several scenarios with game length of about 5-6 hours for the whole conflict.

It is a stripped down World in Flames. It sits close to Axis and Allies in complexity and probably is pretty close to what you are looking for.

Thanks guys for the reccomendations! I'll check them out over the next few days.

You say you don't want Axis & Allies but cite the price (of the 1940 version) as one of the reasons. Have you tried the original version? Used copies should be available for $20 or so.

It *is* unbalanced but it will probably take you 4+ games to really figure this out. (And even so, it's only unbalanced if the allies are playing as a single unified team.) Importantly, you'll enjoy those playings as the underlying mechanisms work well.

It *may* be outdated, but there's a reason it's still discussed 40 years after its publication. Since it can be had so cheaply, I think you should give it a try.

Be sure to post back, saying what you tried and what you liked and disliked. I'm interested too.