Dune Predictions

I own a copy of the Ilya P&P that I have gradually pimped a little more every year (except the box, which is horrible and falling apart). I'm lucky enough that I have a group that plays it every year, and if we're quick enough we play it twice.

I pre-ordered this one anyway. I want the nice, new box, of course, but I also want a quality production. As wonderful as the artwork is, my home-brew copy still has a feeling of jankiness to it. My fingers are crossed that the rules are well done, but that would just be a bonus, really.

In the end, I have no doubt that between the components I already have and the new ones arriving, I'll be able to cobble together my own personal Ultimate Kwisatz Haderach edition.

I have two predictions regarding the new release of Dune:

1. Dune will be well-received at this site.
2. I won't be reading comments about it at BGG. Too many idiots there, and I got bored with plonking them after the first 100 or so.

Shellhead wrote: 2. I won't be reading comments about it at BGG. Too many idiots there, and I got bored with plonking them after the first 100 or so.

In the spirit of magnanimously taking one for the team, I pledge to plow through the comments and post the stupidest ones here.

My prediction for BGG response: "7 out of 10"

I like to imagine that somewhere out near the FFG Event Center there is a secret landfill where piles of unsold copies of Rex and that Midnight DVD are buried. Probably that Mutant Chroniciles CMG they did too.

OMG I have a complaint. I hate that there is no art on the tanks or the bank.

“Feyd Rautha here...”

Paul looks like a young David Byrne.

Jackwraith wrote: But there are many other games that would come off the shelf before it these days because they lack things like blank cards that do nothing, which simply aren't that exciting from a modern perspective.

I can't disagree more. In fact, I would say exactly the opposite: That the useless cards are vital for the working of the blind bidding system and one of the many brillant mechanics of Dune.

Here's the thing: The useless cards add risk, tension and importance to your choices by opening up the possibility of bidding wrong. If all the cards were useful or good, then bidding on every card would be an automatic decision. You could just bid two and always come out ahead. Adding useless cards gives a reason to carefully assess your need for cards, the amount you can spend and outweight the potential risk.

We must also keep in mind that these useless cards aren't actually useless. They reduce the amount of informationa available to your opponents and allows you to bluff. It's much scarier to attack a player with 1 unknown card in hand than a player with perfect information on your side. Remember, only one player out of six knows you hold a useless card, the rest have to play around a potential weapon or Hajr.

There's actually a thread on BGG where an expert player gives a typical value for different cards. He values useless cards at 1 spice, Hajr and Cheap Hero at 1.5 spice and Weather Control at 2 spice. Most notably, Truthtrance is also valued at 2 spice. So the value of useless cards isn't actually that different from other, more apparently useful cards.

It's also not a purely blind bid. One player can see all cards and hence has a strong impact on the bidding. This means they can try to manipulate other players into buying useless cards or help a paying player avoid them. This gives a lot of structure, tension and intrigue to a seemingly straightfoward process.

There are also mechanisms that interact with useless cards in subtle ways. Negotiating with Atreides for information is the most obvious, but there's more. For example, Harkonnen gets a free card with every purcharse, meaning that a useless card is not a loss but a cheaper gain to them. There's also a limited hand size, which forces you to manage your hand and even engage in battles to do so.

I also like the bluntness of them. Quite literally, you spend money thinking you are going to get an advantage and get a card that says LA LA LA instead. What does it do? Nothing. It's literally useless. You now have to stare at this funny, useless thing and try to find a way to turn it into an advantage. It creates emotional little moments, like hiding your dissapointment or tricking other people with them.

Truth to be told, if "modern game design" means this stuff is wrong, then to hell with modern game design

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As far as expecations go, I simply think we'll see the same complaints about how the game is "oudated", "too long" and "too nasty" from people who haven't played the game but feel threatened by its existence. See: Reddit threads on the subject.

Disgustipater wrote: Also, here are the quick start rules:

gf9games.com/dune/wp-content/uploads/DUNE-Quick-start-Guide.pdf

Most everything seems to be the same, except you can get CHOAM Charity with 0 or 1 spice instead of just 0. Or maybe it was always that way?

Those are some pretty good rules! They really seem to explain the game well.

There's a thread at BGG concerning changes. They have indeed changed it so you can call charity with 1 spice, which I think is a good move.
boardgamegeek.com/thread/2228302/changes-gf9-bringing-game

Ugh, lost my initial post. Short version: it will sell well, little to no reaction on BGG, because people will pick it up to add a Grail game to their collection and never actually play it.

WadeMonnig wrote: Ugh, lost my initial post. Short version: it will sell well, little to no reaction on BGG, because people will pick it up to add a Grail game to their collection and never actually play it.

ding ding ding

I don't care at all what the reaction to the game is -- I'll be buying a copy and probably never play it. (On the occasions I have had the opportunity to play, it's almost always with someone else's copy.)

I'm really hoping the quality of the components is good -- I've been "half-way" through completing my P&P version for several years now. If the published version is good enough, I can scratch that off the to-do list.

Rulebook has been posted:

www.gf9games.com/dune/wp-content/uploads/Dune-Rulebook-.pdf

Just in case anyone is unfamiliar with the subject material (yes, that's a joke):

Is it a safe assumption that everyone agrees with the rule book's recommendation to play the basic game a few times before trying advanced?

I don't think so. I think the Bene Gesserit need the Optional rule of spiritual advisors in order to be the Bene Gesserit.

I haven't gotten all the way through the new rule book yet, but the component upgrades are great because they serve the actual gameplay instead of just senselessly adding plastic minis to justify a price hike. I already pimped out my original edition with traitor cards, but they take it a step farther (in the right direction) with BG prediction cards, storm cards, and especially the alliance cards. Makes it easy to offer an alliance to a newish player. Instead of paraphrasing the benefit of the alliance, show them the card. The two sides of the BG troop tokens are a great idea.