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× Talk about the latest and greatest AT, and the Classics.

Cole Wehrle's Oath / yeh I wish his oath was not to dink about endlessly

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23 Oct 2019 13:01 #302706 by Frohike
If anyone has Cole's personal contact info, I'd recommend giving him a heads up about the name Oath. I'm assuming he's already done the research and secured the name, but when the controversy about this MMO in development surfaced on my feed, I immediately confused the headline with the board game. Considering how much of a shitshow the MMO kerfuffle is at the moment, I'm guessing the publisher could be very... volatile when it comes to lawsuits.

www.kickstarter.com/projects/readyupstudios/oath

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23 Oct 2019 16:07 #302712 by Gary Sax
It'd be great if they called it "Cole Wehrle's Oath" Steve Jackson style.
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30 Oct 2019 00:10 #302921 by Gary Sax
Still a little bit vague, but it's fun that this started with some designs that looked like Divine Right.

boardgamegeek.com/article/33254384

It kind of reminds me of a little bit of a Crusader Kings vibe if you're familiar with that PC property.

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30 Oct 2019 05:50 #302922 by mezike
So far it reads to me like he is building on the general structure of deck-building games where there is a small subset of dozens of moving parts used in any one play, except that the legacy element is enforcing consistency in the selection one game to the next. Instead of 'pick ten decks' you evolve the selection of components via the results of gameplay, and each component is a distinct part of the playing space and more than just a stack of cards. Anyone who is involved with a particular copy of the game over the long-term will see (or be able to concoct in their own imagination) a meta-story evolving, but it essentially remains a game you could pick up and play in any state.

That would actually excite me a lot more than the sketchy high concept behind it, it's a game I can visualise and something I've wanted to see for a while - kind of a deck-selection mechanism instead of deck-building, further recursive deconstruction of card games. Totally hooked right now.
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30 Oct 2019 13:02 #302933 by Shellhead
Thanks to links in this thread, I discovered that Cole Wehrle lives in my county. I love the Divine Right reference, that was a favorite game at two different points in my life. I wonder if Cole knows that Divine Right designer Glenn Rahman lives in our metro area. I was a playtester for the revamped edition of Divine Right that was published around 2002. Cole is right about Divine Right, it's the poster child for fiddly chrome rules, but that chrome also really brings the setting to life.

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11 Dec 2019 10:49 - 11 Dec 2019 10:54 #305009 by Gary Sax
boardgamegeek.com/article/33561162

"If there's a common thread that connects the designs I've worked on over the last several years, it's that they are preoccupied with “bad marriages” between players where one or more members must simultaneously work together and against their partners."

I think this is exactly what attracts me to Wehrle's designs but also makes his designs harder to get to the table in some ways than Eklund's. Eklund's Pax games are about very temporary cooperation or moments of synergy between two players that almost immediately break down again. Wehrle's games are much more interactive for longer terms. In that way, I actually think the Pax games by Eklund are better for pick up and play game group type situations where you won't play with committed people willing to politik a little bit.

I would actually love to get Wehrle's game design in the type of space Sidereal Confluence plays in with binding deals. It'd be a nice change of pace for for the probability of a deal being honored not being at the center of a Wehrle game.

Also, I'm intrigued by the rest of what he's talking about here, that just stuck out to me. He describes the three elements that separate his last three games---but especially Pax Pamir 2nd and John Company. Feels like it might be trying to fuse those elements.
Last edit: 11 Dec 2019 10:54 by Gary Sax.
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16 Dec 2019 13:58 - 16 Dec 2019 14:01 #305169 by Disgustipater
The Twilight Imperium podcast Space Cats Peace Turtles is branching out into Dune and Root and they interviewed Cole about Oath and played some rounds of it. If you want to skip over the part where Cole is explaining the rules, the design discussion starts at about 33 minutes.

spacecatspeaceturtles.podbean.com/e/ep-1...th-with-cole-wehrle/
Last edit: 16 Dec 2019 14:01 by Disgustipater.
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16 Dec 2019 15:00 #305175 by Gary Sax
Thanks! I will definitely listen to this and report back with comments.

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16 Dec 2019 21:48 #305181 by engelstein
Had a chance to playtest this at Tabletop Network last month.

It's a very interesting design. The core idea is that the way the prior game ends impacts the starting layout of the next game. Specifically:

1. There are several ways you can win - controlling territory, influencing allies, capturing the royal family, etc. Depending on the condition that actually wins the game impacts the "Oath" that the next game starts with. The "Oath" becomes the core way to earn VP.

2. The map for the next game is based around the territory controlled by the winner.

3. The various faction strengths (NPC factions corresponding to suits) is impacted by the way players supported them. Plus more cards from the factions friendly to the winner are included in the deck the next game.

Note that none of these impact a specific player. Everyone starts on an even footing, and you don't continue as the same "faction". Even if you play with the same group over and over, each game you are like a minor faction trying to become the new dominant faction over last game's victor (who is now abstracted as "the empire".)

I know the game has already gone through like three iterations since I tried it, so I don't want to go into any specific mechanisms beyond this. But that core idea above is still present.
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06 Jan 2020 10:45 #305838 by Gary Sax
boardgamegeek.com/article/33722169

Next update in case you might miss it. Love the King of Dragon Pass shout-out.

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09 Jan 2020 08:16 #305957 by thegiantbrain
I'm really interested in this one. I love emergent narrative in games and this sounds like it might have it in spades. It will depend a lot on cost of course especially in a post brexit UK.

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09 Jan 2020 08:53 - 09 Jan 2020 09:05 #305958 by lj1983
Last edit: 09 Jan 2020 09:05 by lj1983.
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09 Jan 2020 10:02 #305966 by Gary Sax
Wow, thank you for linking this LJ, fascinating.

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09 Jan 2020 12:54 #305983 by cdennett

lj1983 wrote: spacebiff.com/2020/01/08/oath/

Definitely worth a read

If you read the article but didn't read the alt-text on the pictures, you really should go back and do so...
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10 Jan 2020 07:39 #306006 by thegiantbrain
It was that review that got me on board with the game. Great piece of writing.

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