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Episode 53 - Meddling Wizards

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× Talk about the latest and greatest AT, and the Classics.

Cole Wehrle's Oath / yeh I wish his oath was not to dink about endlessly

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04 Jul 2020 00:10 - 04 Jul 2020 00:15 #311672 by Not Sure

OhBollox wrote: I'm on board for John Company 2e despite owning 1e. Chap knows his business.


Same here. We've had a good time (for lockdown) playing JC on Tabletop Simulator.

There's a lot of game stuck into that box, even with the weird packaging constraints and the early-designer missteps.
Last edit: 04 Jul 2020 00:15 by Not Sure. Reason: add quote for clarity.

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04 Jul 2020 04:55 #311674 by mezike
I’m very much into the back-and-forth because I haven’t yet decided on putting in a pre-order. I think the aftermarket will be a bit more gnarly than with Root so I’m actively interested in the progress rather than just sitting back and waiting for general release.

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04 Jul 2020 06:27 #311675 by OhBollox
I expect it'll be lively; people always seem surprised to find Wehrle's designs don't suit them. I'm in on the KS despite misgivings about the art.

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04 Jul 2020 15:08 #311682 by Jackwraith

Not Sure wrote: I'm still of the opinion that that I'm interested in whatever gets delivered.

I stopped watching the back-and-forth months ago, and I'm just waiting for it to settle down and ship. If it takes a while, whatever. I'm not going anywhere anyway.

Somewhere upthread a few of us said "might be a disaster", but Cole's track record was still worth the price of admission to me.


This is basically where I am. I like every one of his designs that I've played. But I've been distracted by many other things recently, so I haven't bothered to follow the back-and-forth and various design debates on BGG. Sure, there's a possibility that I'll be disappointed, but Root, Vast, and Pax Pamir are still near the top of my list to be played whenever gaming is a possibility and I feel pretty safe in thinking Oath will be, too.

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17 Jul 2020 12:15 #312170 by mezike
Looks like the combat system is going through an overhaul:

boardgamegeek.com/thread/2465871/new-com...ystem-shared-twitter
threadreaderapp.com/thread/1283049020026...0.html?refreshed=yes

Personally I like it. As Cole says, the original version was adding overhead for players with a variety of calculations leading to a single roll of a bunch of dice, but I also imagine it was causing stuttering stops at high-intensity moments. It sounds so much cleaner now, defender chucks some dice and commits warbands to set a target number, attacker chucks dice against it and can kill off warbands to make up the difference. All the combat related cards now just add or remove attack dice. Net result is the same spread of results as the old system, but now the defender is actively involved and there is no break in the action.

Cole might be an obsessive tinkerer but I do like every evolution made so far.
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17 Jul 2020 12:19 - 17 Jul 2020 12:20 #312171 by Gary Sax
The contested roll is an interesting choice. Probably a good one from an emotional perspective of the players at the table. The uncontested roll and odds table was a little bit weird because it felt like the other player wasn't involved.

I do think it makes the rolls require a bit basic addition/subtraction looking at dice, though.

No opinion on eliminating liabilities and such.
Last edit: 17 Jul 2020 12:20 by Gary Sax.
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17 Jul 2020 12:29 #312172 by mezike

Gary Sax wrote:
I do think it makes the rolls require a bit basic addition/subtraction looking at dice, though.


Sure, but that is easy to do at a glance and a world of simplicity ahead of the CRT with multiplication, division, and rounding of fractions as well as simple addition. I'm no stranger to a CRT but I just don't see them as necessary if there is a simpler alternative that yields similar results.

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22 Jul 2020 23:13 #312366 by OhBollox
www.dicebreaker.com/companies/wehrlegig-...-oath-root-pax-pamir - Not just an Oath interview, but some interesting stuff from Cole and Drew Wehrle.
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27 Jul 2020 14:03 #312515 by OhBollox
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27 Jul 2020 16:28 #312520 by Gary Sax
I still think the big advantage here is the emotional impact of having the defender roll dice so they feel like they're participating in the combat.

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27 Jul 2020 17:38 - 27 Jul 2020 17:40 #312522 by Jexik

OhBollox wrote: www.dicebreaker.com/companies/wehrlegig-...-oath-root-pax-pamir - Not just an Oath interview, but some interesting stuff from Cole and Drew Wehrle.


Thanks for this, I love seeing behind the curtain a bit.

One thing that resonated with me here was how they like the discussion around games as much as playing a game, and using car rides as excuses to hash ideas out.

The car rides to and from Heroscape tournaments were often nearly as enjoyable as the events themselves.
Last edit: 27 Jul 2020 17:40 by Jexik.

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10 Aug 2020 12:38 - 10 Aug 2020 12:39 #312954 by Gary Sax
I just played a solo two handed game of this and it was absolutely wild, delightful shit. It was supremacy and the Chancellor took territory and managed to get lots of denizen cards on the board, in particular playing toll roads and curfew, which completely left the exile out in the hinterlands dead in the water because of the punishing action restrictions in any part of the realm. By turn 6 they had no sites ruled and the chancellor had 6! In turn 5, though, the completely out of it exile drew lost heir on a "what else should I do, drawing from the world deck only costs 2 from darkest secret" draw from the world deck and put it face down. From just holding the darkest secret at the beginning and down 2-1 in relics at the start of turn 6, the exile bought the people's favor (a relic) and then bought the sticky fire relic at their site with the last of their resources, flipped up long lost heir to become a citizen, then rolled for the end of the game. 5. Citizen red wins.

This shit writes itself. Court noble starts a civil war, is resoundingly beaten and driven to the hinterlands as the king consolidates and develops a police state in the realm (very effective order cards), then in the hinterlands slums finds out that he is the unknown bastard son via his intelligence network (darkest secret), whereupon he takes the people's favor by showing off an ancient family relic (sticky fire).

An individual game of this is super short so I think this sort of stuff is just going to be a blast.
Last edit: 10 Aug 2020 12:39 by Gary Sax.
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