Leder games Oath chatter

Played 3-player last night. I was Chancellor again and had a much harder time holding the kingdom together. Great fun was had. My wife has made it clear that she will never be a citizen in my kingdom.

The only disappointment was that the ending of this particular game just fizzled out with a war exhaustion win.

I'm starting to see the value of some of the cards that just seemed like suit cards to me previously---especially the ones related to supply. Peeking at the discard can be really valuable, since it can save supply. Sornars just bought the map in our game, and it has a ton of value if you can get it cheaply.

Basically, if you think about some of the cards with respect to how they save supply, some of the more minor powers are actually quite good.

There's a card somewhere that lets you buy from any discard as well which I've used in successful combination with discard peeking in the past. Using it to thin out a discard pile to frustrate an opponent into burning supply is totally valid, as is purchasing your own discard on a second card draw to get both the good cards that you drew.

There are certainly some edge strategies in there to pursue wrt deck diving and discard manipulation. I would say that my favourite games have been where I milled around the edges building up a secret plan for a sudden strike, moreso than the ones where I have carved out an advantage and then fought to keep it from deteriorating, and those kinds of games need you to be manipulating the subtler parts of the system.

Card is "Errand Boy" I'm using it now, sornars just discarded it.

The lesson about action efficiency is there to be learnt in the basic setup with Elders out on the board but despite playing this setup a bunch of times, I've always underestimated/ignored that card until recently. My initial analysis had been that it saves you the hassle of lining up your advisors which is nice but but what it really does is allow you to ignore your advisors, location and supply, assuming you rule it. The cases where you're all in on one suit and can get more efficiency by trading for multiple secrets are so rare that it turns out to be a pretty good card, especially since the gained secret can be used immediately. I've used it to partner up with Alchemists to turn one secret and two favor into four favor (net two) for 0 actions while also allowing me to manipulate/starve favor from all banks except the Nomads. That may be more about the strength of Alchemists than Elders but the former is definitely enabled by the latter.

Speaking of maintaining a deteriorating advantage - that's precisely how playing the Chancellor feels and is why I suspect that I prefer playing Exiles in general. Three player really highlights this, especially when the Exiles wisely split up the map so that you're forced to either start each turn with six supply (to move to the opposite end + campaign) or stay in the Provinces while they go about their business in the Cradle and Hinterland.

I really feel that some people need to sit down with this game and play it in a purely self interested way to see how it plays out. I think they'll find with low player counts it works well.

My experience with three handed solo is that with no metagame, only trying to maximize win probabilities, the fundamental game of Oath is still exciting and fun---it rewards good play but not deterministically so. With 5 or 6 that's a different story, but as someone who loves it Ithink it'd be sad to see people write this game off as a sort of pure negotiation win-make exercise.

I think it's a good game on its own merits and is one of those rare games which is fantastic with three players but I think a fair assessment of Oath without the chronicle makes the flaws at any other player count harder to ignore. While I think the prevailing "this is munchkin with extra steps" narrative is not correct, kingmaking is unabashedly present but is an interesting part of the game thanks to the chronicle.

Making a king without extracting a concession is arbitrary and pointless and would lead you to think that a win is determined by turn order. The chronicle is the only way to extract a concession beyond the existing game and make that choice meaningful.

Three player more or less eliminates the need to make a king which then makes the mechanics of the game shine but if I wanted a one off experience of a Pax game I'd probably elect to play something other than Oath if I had any number of players other than three.

Yes, Pax Pamir 2nd edition is just so wonderful and tense at three players that I couldn't see myself ever choosing Oath with the chronicle removed.

This game is so my shit. I picked up the three handed solo chronicle and god I just love the texture as you get farther into a Chronicle. I hadn't really grasped just how good Brass Horse is for warlike strategy. Traveling around for free gets your around your biggest weakness when your supply is cut down, *and* it gets you to new places for free to muster at and attack local sites. I love the synergies in this game.

Planning on playing oath at 1pm pacific Saturday on tabletop simulator, new chronicle. Post here if you'd like to play, or join the session if you're already on discord with me.

Glad to teach if someone wants, we should start a little earlier than 1 to go over the basics if so.

Been playing a lot solo, obviously. I think one of my favorite moments in Oath is when your first swing misses or you get beat back after taking the lead and getting close to a win. If the first 4 turns of Oath are about carefully laid plans, resource buildup, getting your advisors and sites together, and striking at just the right opportunity, turn 5+ after a defeat is about eyeing what you have remaining and scrambling to put your nose ahead with what's left.

I personally think that this is where the game breaks down as a competitive experience for people when citizens are in play. The citizen is trying to win, and needs to be willing to burn the empire down to do so, even opening up the empire to exile threats if necessary.

Had no idea there was a vassal mod, so had dropped out of reading this thread. Having some remorse about not picking it up as I teach myself haha. Will probably go through a few multihanded to get used to it, but, it doesn't seem as fiddly as I expected it to be as I was watching it develop. Really like the simple way those things on the map are open for use when you rule, and your retinue is yours but restricted to whereever your pawn is. That's really very neat in a lot of ways.

Matt, sornars and I are playing a VASSAL game currently. Works quite well with low player counts where table diplomacy isn't so important.

Reminds me it's my turn!

Little 4p evening game of a new chronicle.

Every time I play this game after a little time away I have this moment in the first two to three turns where I'm like... isn't this a little noodly? Is this is good as I remembered in terms of payoff?

Then that second stage comes through, not always in the literal second half or at a specific set moment every time... and shit just pops off and I'm like oh yeah, the exploration and table setting was necessary to set the terms and possibilities of the struggle to come. This does still completely work (for me).

I'm still amazed about how big a game it manages to be relative to play time.

I think that point you make about the early game is very true, and I also think it is why people can bounce off it so hard - losing interest by not having confidence in being able to create an endgame plan, or not embracing the design pillars of being part of a storied history and working to influence the legacy state for the next game when all seems otherwise lost.

I sadly decided to cash in on my copy because despite how much I love playing it and admire the design, it became a hard croaker. The ephemeral tastes at my club moved on quickly as expected, not enough traction amongst my gaming buddies, and I just don’t think it works two player so no place for it at home. For a game that really comes into its own with repeat play it would be a disservice to keep it just for a sporadic solitary dust-off.