Talk to me about space games!

I love Merchants of Venus. Love it! Played it 21 times last year. But I find myself also wanting a more adventurey space game. The big three seem to be Firefly, Star Wars Outer Rim, and Xia... So what's your favorite? Which one would you recommend? Why? Any other ones to check out instead? Any other adventurey pick up and deliver sandbox kind of games to check out instead, with non space themes?

I'd probably be playing about 50/50 solo/multiplayer, if that matters for recommendation purposes.

If by 'space' you mean 'space flight', I don't have much for you. If you mean 'generally hard SF taking place in space', then my first suggestion is Theseus: The Dark Orbit. It's one of Michal Oracz's best designs and plays somewhere between a DoaM and a puzzle game. The 4 (5) factions in the main box are very different (as are the two expansion ones), so there's tons of replayability. Unfortunately, solo is not an option.

Next would be Tiny Epic Galaxies. It has decent thematics and is really easy to teach, especially to non-gamers if you're trying to snare relatives, etc. The fact that it's a dice game shouldn't be dismaying even for the Euro types, since there are many ways to both alter dice and take advantage of the rolls of others. There are detailed solo rules, too.

Third suggestion would be Star Trek: Ascendancy. It's a 4X game, but a pretty streamlined one and is positively dripping in ST lore, if you're into that kind of thing. For those averse to "wargames", you can easily win ST: A without firing a shot, depending on what faction you're playing. Sadly, no solo here, either.

Of the three you mentioned, my first pick would be Firefly, mostly for theme, but I haven't had a chance to play Outer Rim which everyone speaks very highly of around here.

As someone here said, Firefly doesn't value your time as much as the others do. Haven't played either xia or SW enough to recommend (once and zero) but I've heard good things (cue Charlie) I'll second the Tiny Epic Galaxies recommendation.

I'll also nominate Theseus, and throw in Nemesis.

Neither of them are pick up and deliver. Theseus is all about setting up traps for your opponents, and Nemesis is like the movie Aliens, but everyone is playing as Burke.

For the adventure ones you mention, I prefer Xia by a fair distance. I have played Merchant and Firefly a lot but not Outer Rim, so I can't speak to it. I like Xia because it has a diversity of options that reward points at a somewhat balanced rate, and encourages switching point strategies depending where you are geographically (if you're playing with the economy board, which you absolutely need to)---PvP, PvE, pick up and deliver, point to point missions, and some bizarre card rewards (e.g. intergalactic race may just start randomly). For me it encapsulates the best parts of american style designs back when ameritrash vs. eurogames was the discourse.

Reasons not to choose Xia is that it is a very generic sci-fi without a property behind it---I adore this about Xia, personally---it's fairly wristy in terms of dice, it's clunky mechanically at times, and it has a lot of random elements you need to accept if you want to enjoy it, though the expansion grinds down the worst of the dice randomness using new mechanics.

We just played it and I just wanted to play it again.

I can only speak to a narrow subset of these games, since I've not played many of them. But I think the vast majority of people would only want one of Firefly or Outer Rim. Those two games are definitely cut from the same cloth. I like Outer Rim a lot more, partly because I'm much more a Star Wars guy than a Firefly guy. But it's also a much cleaner game and is generally a more manageable design, while still providing much of the same payoff. I get the impression that Xia is in a similar bucket, but perhaps depends a little less on its license than either of the other games.

So I love Firefly and I don’t mind the slow pace of it. I think it puts you into that setting and feels like you are interacting with it, rather than just existing in it.

I’ve read that Empires of the Void II is also good, but I haven’t played it. It sort of reminds me a bit of Titan AE, players control worldships and there is pick up/deliver, battling and diplomacy.

If you like the Star Trek setting and can tolerate some poor component quality, then Fleet Captains is worth looking at.

Talon kicks ass. Very accessible space combat game that plays in about 90 minutes. Soloable but a real opponent will throw more than a few surprises at you.

Plays 1 to 12 players equally well

I’m going to throw in behind Outer Rim.

There was a time in which I would have said Firefly, but that time has come and gone. It does not value your time. You can spend a great deal of time, up to 45 minutes to an hour even after you’re an experienced player, just assembling your crew and gearing them up before taking on missions. One random event or a player moving Reavers on to you “because you’re there and I have to do it!” can rob of literally an hours worth of work. There was a time where I would say, “Well, that just how it goes in space,” but that’s a sorry excuse and it is not fun.

Xia is a little bit better but it still feels very much behind the times. It’s not quite as punishing as Firefly, but it does just kind of aimlessly meander around for most of its playtime. I kind of like it now but that’s only after adding in the expansion. That’s going to make an already expensive game even more expensive, and while it’s closest to Merchant of Venus in spirit, there’s no guarantee that you’ll like it. Thats because it does not make it easy for you to like it. This is a game that requires work. Lots and lots of work. The jury is still out on whether not it’s worth it for me to put the work in. It’s also exceedingly dry in terms of setting. Designing your ship is definitely the strongest point.

Outer Rim on the other hand is the best parts of the Star Wars universe in a box. It may not have any new mechanics, but c’mon, we’re all smart enough to know that new mechanics do not mean they’re fun. What is here works, it’s extremely intuitive, and the different career paths feel completely different from each other. Anyone who says the decks are too small for it to be interesting long term doesn’t know what the fuck they’re talking about. I’ve played it at least 12 times now, I’m still seeing encounters for the first time (they’re Arkham style with multiple locations on one card) and the market decks being small is actually a strength. You’ll need to hunt for that one perfect item you want, but if you’re deadset in it, at least it will show up by the end of the game. Most importantly, it does value your time. You’ll waste turns doing jobs that go south, but you won’t lose progress. It’s an absolute joy to play.

I'm enjoying OUTER RIM as well, noted on other threads. It's a good time. I don't know if it's a space game, per se, outside of theme it doesn't really come up. It's not like managing O2 and hull breaches and shit like that. You're just Lando being King Shit of Fuck Mountain for 60-90 minutes. That has its own appeal.

TWILIGHT IMPERIUM is a space game, right? I heard that's good.

I like ECLIPSE, but I think everyone here hates it. They're wrong, it's fun. It's like 3.5X because you don't really have to fight unless you feel like it. You are rewarded amply for losing. Different aliens play differently and some very much so. E.g., the game of everyone else is skewed when the Planta are in the mix. The economy management is amazing.

Everyone here doesn't hate Eclipse. It's by far the best space game for me.

I'm a little surprised I'm the only person around here who was underwhelmed by Outer Rim.

Ooh, I am glad to hear that. A lot of folks feel the combat in ECLIPSE is inconsequential because of the reward for losing, but I like it because it doesn't feel like the only thing that matters, as it does in other games. I don't think any other game handles tech trees and economy as well as ECLIPSE. I think I am reminded of AGE OF RENAISSANCE, but I may be misremembering that game.

That reward for losing encourages combat and early on, unlike another popular game it gets compared to which punishes players for fighting.

charlest wrote: Everyone here doesn't hate Eclipse. It's by far the best space game for me.

I'm a little surprised I'm the only person around here who was underwhelmed by Outer Rim.

I was thinking about this recently. I feel like I played a different game than you did.