Historical, Multiplayer Dudes-on-a-Map Games: Opinions?

Sagrilarus wrote:

Gary Sax wrote: I found myself reading along with The Anarchy, a book written well after this game was made, and nodding along with the history because the game did actually help me understand why the British were behaving unethically and badly.

This is the Dalrymple book?

Yes, great book.

Not Sure wrote: I agree with Joel that the revisions for HiS, while minor, do a lot to prevent some gamy bullshit that often went on with early editions. I like VQ, but it's a lot more sandboxy than HIS and more about exploring different ways to victory points (ie "what makes a great country, historically?"). The added rules on top of HIS is not awesome, and I think it takes a few plays to get past the fumbling stage. That's sadly a lot of time invested.

COIN games are also pretty good in general. They're reasonably soloable, since they don't rely on hidden hands. Everybody is planning based on the card flop. I haven't played all of them, just the early ones. I'd start with a relatively early one, as there was a chrome creep happening in that series too.

I should probably try VQ again. I only played it before publication, so I'm sure my picture of it wasn't very complete, but even then, you've described my experience with it. I felt like there were all these levers, but I never got a sense of how they were all connected and what they could accomplish.

I'm glad to hear that the HIS revision helped. I do wonder how much the game gets played these days...

Count Orlok wrote: I'm glad to hear that the HIS revision helped. I do wonder how much the game gets played these days...

Still quite a lot. I'd guess play on ACTS carries on at about the usual volume, and play on the VASSAL Discord channel exploded into life once COVID hit. There are 8 active games now and I can't count how many completed. Some VQ games too, but my observation has been that many of the players who were new to it soured on it for all the stated reasons.

JoelCFC25 wrote:

Count Orlok wrote: I'm glad to hear that the HIS revision helped. I do wonder how much the game gets played these days...

Still quite a lot. I'd guess play on ACTS carries on at about the usual volume, and play on the VASSAL Discord channel exploded into life once COVID hit. There are 8 active games now and I can't count how many completed. Some VQ games too, but my observation has been that many of the players who were new to it soured on it for all the stated reasons.

Glad to hear. It makes me wonder what it is about that design in particular that has led to such a long life. I don't see the Napoleonic Wars (the game it's loosely based on, I believe) with that kind of following.

It manages to strike some kind of balance between sandbox and a game on rails that really works. I think the religious wars nicely captures the kind of intersecting and conflicting interests between powers that a lot of other multiplayer games struggle with.

I think the big step up in HIS vs Napoleonic Wars for staying power is that HIS is a game of six reasonably equal powers.

In Napoleonic Wars, it's France vs the world, and even the roles of the other non-France players aren't very equal. While the Hapsburgs are strong in HIS, they're not quite the same focal point of the game. So you have to get 4 or 5 players, a couple of which are willing to play bit parts while one is involved in literally everything. Hard sell.

Good list and good topic. I'd consider;

Falling Sky for Ancients COIN. The COIN system can lead to slightly drawn out games but it does generally work well. Falling Sky has interesting factions but can be quite hard for the Romans, but more due to group think from the players than the game design i think.

The Quarter Master General Series - see Victory or Death Peloponnesian war or the Cold War. Both are comparatively light.

Republic of Rome - not a Dudes on a map game in any sense, but a great political simulation game.

Clash of Monarchs is very good as long as people are prepared for unequal roles.

Pendragon is a fucking joke.

OhBollox wrote: Pendragon is a fucking joke.

Fill me in. What's wrong with it? Thematically, it's probably the topic I'm most drawn to of all the COIN games, but don't know much about the rules.