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Bugs: Recent Topics Paging, Uploading Images & Preview (11 Dec 2020)

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× Talk about the latest and greatest AT, and the Classics.

Eclipse 2nd edition

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24 Nov 2020 11:49 - 24 Nov 2020 12:07 #316499 by Gary Sax
Eclipse 2nd edition was created by Gary Sax
This is the big hotness right now, and I know a few people said in the "do you still play?" ages ago that they still thought reasonably highly of it. I don't have a ton of interest in it but I like keeping tabs on what people are playing and I like this genre. 2nd edition looks pretty neat, the changes they've made look reasonably extensive? Anyone played this one?

I watched the Shut Up and Sit Down hyperbolic review (ah, I see, the best wargame ever) and the one thing I can say... this game is now an aesthetic nightmare from my perspective in a way the first edition wasn't really. The hexes look way too small to do detailed plastic and the cardboard and cube vibe from first edition remains for like tech chits and such but now clashes abominably with the huge new plastic trays, units, discs, etc. I do like that they're thinking so much about making useful inserts that function as trays and trackers, to be fair.
Last edit: 24 Nov 2020 12:07 by Gary Sax.
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24 Nov 2020 11:56 - 24 Nov 2020 11:57 #316500 by charlest
Replied by charlest on topic Eclipse 2nd edition
This is one of my top games and I'm going to be covering it at Ars Technica at some point. Unfortunately I didn't back it thinking I would be able to get a review copy. I haven't been able to get a response which surprised me.

Looks like I will be waiting until retail I guess.
Last edit: 24 Nov 2020 11:57 by charlest.
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24 Nov 2020 12:06 #316502 by Gary Sax
Replied by Gary Sax on topic Eclipse 2nd edition
Would be excited to hear your thoughts when you have a chance to work through it.

I'm *very* surprised they wouldn't supply an arstechnica reviewer a copy.

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24 Nov 2020 12:57 #316506 by Msample
Replied by Msample on topic Eclipse 2nd edition
Yeah I am curious about this as well. From a user interface perspective, it appears they further upped their game with the inserts and trays replacing the easy to displace card displays of the first edition. I am most curious to hear how it compares to the original , which to me suffered a bit from both ending a bit too soon IMO as well as the usual issue of luck of the draw exploration tiles. We found the sweet spot to be four players, as with more it was too crowded and inevitably at least one player was pinced out/doomed by shite tile draws.
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24 Nov 2020 13:14 #316508 by charlest
Replied by charlest on topic Eclipse 2nd edition
This one actually ends a turn sooner, although that doesn't bother me as I think the end is entirely artificial and the mid game can sometimes be waiting for the end to arrive.

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25 Nov 2020 07:05 #316537 by Erik Twice
Replied by Erik Twice on topic Eclipse 2nd edition
All I can say is that 150€ is an insane amount for any game.

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25 Nov 2020 08:18 #316538 by Josh Look
Replied by Josh Look on topic Eclipse 2nd edition
It's very much not worth the asking price.

I checked it out on TTS last night and it addressed none of my issues I had with the first edition. One turn shaved off is a puzzling choice and the last two turns are still an absolute slog.
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25 Nov 2020 13:07 #316560 by Ah_Pook
Replied by Ah_Pook on topic Eclipse 2nd edition
I'm curious to hear more critical takes on 2e, all I've heard is gushing so far basically. Specific from people who has issues with first edition, and how this edition addresses those issues. Basically everyone who has the game atm is people who loved 1e and thought $150 was a fair price for a new version (ie people who are going to gush about 2e), and with covid I'm guessing not maybe people who didn't buy it have had a chance to play it yet.
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25 Nov 2020 13:26 #316566 by Msample
Replied by Msample on topic Eclipse 2nd edition

Ah_Pook wrote: I'm curious to hear more critical takes on 2e, all I've heard is gushing so far basically. Specific from people who has issues with first edition, and how this edition addresses those issues. Basically everyone who has the game atm is people who loved 1e and thought $150 was a fair price for a new version (ie people who are going to gush about 2e), and with covid I'm guessing not maybe people who didn't buy it have had a chance to play it yet.


Yeah I am guessing most owners of 2nd E already liked 1st edition so they are a pre built in audience. Skeptics like myself are gonna wait to see what other skeptics say before thinking of buying it. At that price, it pretty much pre screens out fence sitters.

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25 Nov 2020 14:03 - 25 Nov 2020 14:16 #316568 by Josh Look
Replied by Josh Look on topic Eclipse 2nd edition
I've had some time to digest.

It's been ages since I played 1st edition, so any balance issues are lost on me. And as I said earlier, one less turn did nothing for length or making the endgame any more bearable. The exploration mechanics are still dreadful, getting into combat just so you can fish for points still feels gamey, and while the one nice thing that I could have said about 1st is that the gamestate is very readable, that is not the case here as some of you already suspected.

Calling this a second edition is a stretch. Eclipse has always had legitimate shortcomings and this edition seemed content to ignore those criticisms and instead correct balance issues. I had to go look up the differences because while I playing, I only noticed the one fewer turn and my takeaway was no different from 1st. Given the step back in graphic design, I'd say this is the lesser edition, made for the brainless zombies who need that bloated box of KS pretty.

This is a deluxe edition, nothing more. If you're on the fence, the price tag should be proof of that.

Not surprised to see SUASD gush about it, I have yet to agree with them on a game that isn't a Euro. What is disheartening is that the Kool Aid is back on the table it seems and everyone is just going to ignore how poor huge portions of this game are.
Last edit: 25 Nov 2020 14:16 by Josh Look.
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25 Nov 2020 14:15 #316570 by Gary Sax
Replied by Gary Sax on topic Eclipse 2nd edition
It does remind me that people who think this game is like a refinement of TI:4 baffle me now that I know a lot more about TI:4 from watching streams in the last couple months. The negotiation and above the table stuff *is* the game in TI:4, Eclipse is a really different type of game.

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25 Nov 2020 14:19 - 25 Nov 2020 16:30 #316571 by Josh Look
Replied by Josh Look on topic Eclipse 2nd edition
It's an economic game in 4X clothing. The economic stuff is fine, far from best in class though. It's that nearly all of the 4X systems range from okay to horrible.

I'll be the first to admit that TI is a negotiation game in 4X clothing, and that many of its systems are also subpar. The difference is that it is best in class when it comes to negotiation, if not, very close to it, and the 4X elements, even if weak on their own, all benefit the negotiation core experience.

And for the record, I wanted to like this game. I wanted to like 1st, and I genuinely wanted this to be an improvement. But it isn't, and it's still an okay economic game and a bad 4X game.
Last edit: 25 Nov 2020 16:30 by Josh Look.
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25 Nov 2020 14:23 #316572 by southernman
Replied by southernman on topic Eclipse 2nd edition

Gary Sax wrote: It does remind me that people who think this game is like a refinement of TI:4 baffle me now that I know a lot more about TI:4 from watching streams in the last couple months. The negotiation and above the table stuff *is* the game in TI:4, Eclipse is a really different type of game.

Have to agree, I only played Eclipse once and that was enough for me while happy to play TI3/4 any time.

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25 Nov 2020 14:26 #316573 by southernman
Replied by southernman on topic Eclipse 2nd edition

Erik Twice wrote: All I can say is that 150€ is an insane amount for any game.

That makes the amount I'm looking at dropping on an Etherfields late pledge look a bit better ... barely :whistle: :pinch:

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25 Nov 2020 17:08 - 25 Nov 2020 17:10 #316582 by charlest
Replied by charlest on topic Eclipse 2nd edition
I don't really understand how VPs rewarded for killing ships is gamey but building a tech or settling a specific type of planet because a randomized public objective told you to is not.

It's also worth mentioning that the new edition includes multiple expansion elements from the previous edition.
Last edit: 25 Nov 2020 17:10 by charlest.
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