Stellaris Infinite Legacy

I think this might be peak KS madness. There is no rulebook, no playthrough, no previews to speak of, no real information about the game at all. It has smashed through the $1 million mark. What do these folk think they are backing? Just a big box and a lot of plastic.

Stellaris on Kickstarter

I'm less bothered about the way this particular project has gone about it's business than most people seem to be. It's pretty clear that it is presented with a teaser and the hook of an early-bird pledge in order to generate some buzz and then from Sunday (tomorrow) the designer starts live-streaming the actual gameplay, rules get released, etc. It's not like they are hiding anything. People can grump about it but it's definitively proven to be an effective sales pitch so far.

As for the game itself, there's kind of a TI:4 vibe going on in both presentation and price-point (regarding gameplay I guess we'll find out tomorrow). The only thing that truly annoys me is that they are being a bit vague about shipping costs and cross-border duties where for a project of this scope they really ought to be sourcing complete end-to-end solutions and presenting to the consumer at a single transparent price point.

I dont do KS much these days after getting hit by some of the classic fails, but yeah, even I gotta agree with TGB, how folks are throwing in on just the promise of early bird minis is kinda crazy. I know you can always back out with no penalty (still?) but its crazy to me that there isn't a minimal expectation for what a KS starts with, and a rulebook and gameplay video seems to be that minimum.

I wonder if they know the game isn't great but want to rope folks in for the hype and the strength of the IP.

I don't think that's the case, Academy just seems to always not be fully prepared at launch.

The concept seems pretty interesting. Players progress their empire over multiple sessions and the bigger your expanse the more objectives you have to complete or accomplish in a session. Eventually you retire your civilization and they become AI controlled so your success leaves a permanent mark.

The asymmetrical objectives seem like a wild way to balance empires at different stages of their lifecycle. So if we played three sessions and a new player jumps in, they would have less stuff I believe but also less objectives to win.

That seems like a nightmare to balance but it also seems like a crazy ambitious system to do something like Star Trek: Ascendancy's ascendance concept over multiple plays in a campaign format.

This has the potential to be a top 30 BGG game if the execution is nailed, and Kickstarting is based nearly entirely on potential and hope.

As mentioned above, throw in the early bird and I'm not surprised it's achieved this level of funding. A large number of backers supported the project on the early bird, knowing they can cancel their pledge later if the gameplay videos and rulebook don't emerge.

Of course, psychologically it's harder to say no once you've already backed but that won't get in the way.

Oh, and I think they said it won't be available at retail, just direct from the publisher.

It's the same situation as Eclipse 2nd Dawn which is way more expensive now than it was to back. People are probably also taking that into consideration when backing.

thegiantbrain wrote: ...
There is no rulebook, no playthrough, no previews to speak of, no real information about the game at all. It has smashed through the $1 million mark. What do these folk think they are backing? Just a big box and a lot of plastic.

Stellaris on Kickstarter

This.
Sold on IP only. And pretty sure the component value, especially for the Deluxe with minimal SGs, is not that great.
And not even a real consideration for us in the UK once shipping and VAT is added on (with the distinct possibility of a second hit of VAT being added as it hits the UK border because it is fulfilling from the EU).

mezike wrote: The only thing that truly annoys me is that they are being a bit vague about shipping costs and cross-border duties where for a project of this scope they really ought to be sourcing complete end-to-end solutions and presenting to the consumer at a single transparent price point.

I'm pretty sure the Root KS is similar. There were some UK folks who weren't happy about not knowing how much they are going to have to pay, afraid they are going to get hit with a large bill.

mezike wrote: The only thing that truly annoys me is that they are being a bit vague about shipping costs and cross-border duties where for a project of this scope they really ought to be sourcing complete end-to-end solutions and presenting to the consumer at a single transparent price point.

Yep. They state that VAT will be added to UK and EU pledges, fair enough that is the KS world we are in now for projects not created in Europe, but because it is being fulfilled from Germany (the EU) only UK backers will get a VAT bill from the carrier that ships from Germany to the UK (and the shipment will be held until paid) unless Academy have actually pre-paid the VAT collected from UK backers directly to the UK govt and have included the correct official documentation with each shipment proving this.

Awaken Realms are having a nightmare shipping tainted Grail from Poland to the UK even though they are VAT registered in the UK, have paid all the UK backers VAT to the UK years ago, and have included the documentation advised to use by the UK govt. To be fair this is all on one carrier (UPS) not recognizing the documentation, even though the other carrier (that mine was with thankfully, UPS) happily accepted the same documentation and delivered our games.
But it shows that unless you have paid that VAT directly to the UK, and can prove it, then the UK backers will pay VAT a second time ... I strongly suspect Academy Games do not have any of that set up (and I wouldn't be risking it with that amount of cash tied up ).

Yeah, as I said in the KS thread, I am squarely the target audience for this w/200+ hours of Stellaris but there are just too many questions to me at the price. I have to see more to spend this much money.

I do think the style of legacy it sounds like it's going for is somewhat similar to Oath by Wehrle, which has really resonated with me. The custom civs with slotted bonues like the PC game looks like a great feature. So it is a little bit tempting, but not with this little info.

But boy do I look forward to reading the reviews of this, I could see getting a tabletop simulator campaign of this if individual games really are 2-3 hours. Stellaris has this great concept of an end-game crisis of an AI threat which finishes the campaign, I could see that working really well here as a cap to a campaign; it would be easy to sell additional end game crises to keep things fresh too.

It's all very exciting conceptually. This is My Type of Shit in terms of what I want out of a campaign/legacy game. Not a scripted story, but a systems based campaign that has concrete chapters represented by full games.

I've basically shut down my desire to back any Kickstarters until UK, I am based in Scotland, Vat rules etc. are much clearer. I have Oath and some other things on the way but I doubt I will be backing anything this year due to the uncertainty caused by the clusterfuck that is Brexit.

thegiantbrain wrote: I've basically shut down my desire to back any Kickstarters until UK, I am based in Scotland, Vat rules etc. are much clearer. I have Oath and some other things on the way but I doubt I will be backing anything this year due to the uncertainty caused by the clusterfuck that is Brexit.

It's quite simple - VAT is required, it all depends if the project has a UK fulfilment hub (in which case they will also announce friendly shipping) or if they state that they will be paying the VAT directly to the UK govt. Anything else and you will be asked to pay VAT at the border, just like any other product you buy online from another country.
KS projects that I have backed that have one of those two coming this year or next - Darkest Dungeon, HEL: The Last Saga, Machina Arcana, Aeon Trespass, Oathsworn, Sword & Sorcery, all the Awaken Realms projects.

But there are many that state neither and, unless you are loaded, you will risk double VAT if the project charges you it in the PM.

Well they're clarified the UK VAT issue now, a new update (and an email answering my question to them) says they will now also be fulfilling from a UK hub, I don't know why that wasn't mentioned it the shipping info from Day 1 - I wonder how many sales they may have missed from people seeing no UK hub and moving on.
So now it's only bloody expensive rather that fucking expensive.

I am utterly fascinated to see this at direct retail/fulfilled campaign because there are a ton of interesting ideas they're playing with in the 4x context, but the shambles of a campaign blasted past my personal bullshit meter on KS campaigns---and I'm not one of these anti-KS people on this forum at all.

And they are still digging the hole with how poorly prepared they are to even run a tabletop simulator stream or anything like that.

Gary Sax wrote: I am utterly fascinated to see this at direct retail/fulfilled campaign because there are a ton of interesting ideas they're playing with in the 4x context, but the shambles of a campaign blasted past my personal bullshit meter on KS campaigns---and I'm not one of these anti-KS people on this forum at all.

And they are still digging the hole with how poorly prepared they are to even run a tabletop simulator stream or anything like that.

They've said there won't be any retail apart from their webstore.

southernman wrote:

Gary Sax wrote: I am utterly fascinated to see this at direct retail/fulfilled campaign because there are a ton of interesting ideas they're playing with in the 4x context, but the shambles of a campaign blasted past my personal bullshit meter on KS campaigns---and I'm not one of these anti-KS people on this forum at all.

And they are still digging the hole with how poorly prepared they are to even run a tabletop simulator stream or anything like that.

They've said there won't be any retail apart from their webstore.

That and the license explain the massive FOMO reaction.