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Episode 73 - Double Time

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× Talk about the latest and greatest AT, and the Classics.

Battlestar Atlantica?

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10 Jun 2021 12:07 #323850 by charlest
Replied by charlest on topic Battlestar Atlantica?
They're the equivalent of the plastic Basestars in BSG. They likely attack the ship and cause hull damage, locking off areas.

I wonder how you will fight them. Will there be marines and smaller boats, or simply firearms on deck?
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10 Jun 2021 13:24 #323852 by san il defanso
There's probably a way to make this work. I keep coming back to Carpenter's The Thing, which I know they made a game about a while back, but this could evoke that same thing about be alright.

I would definitely prefer something that was more just a nod of Lovecraftian themes, rather than overtly based on Lovecraft.

The original design needs some tuning. Some of my best gaming memories are with that game, but it definitely was missing more than it hit by the time I unloaded my copy.

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10 Jun 2021 14:02 - 10 Jun 2021 14:03 #323854 by DarthJoJo
Replied by DarthJoJo on topic Battlestar Atlantica?
I’m not terribly interested in the game having been underwhelmed by Battlestar (probably because I was outed as a Cylin when they caught me reading that section of the rule book), but I am curious what this means for the Arkham Files setting.

Unfathomable is set more than a decade earlier than most of the card game’s campaigns and has ten all-new characters apparently. Could be fun to see young Norman and Gloria or old Keilani switch games. Could also open a window for games set in the ‘50’s or Reconstruction South or something. You know, if they want to reskin Starcraft or XCOM or Knizia’s Lord of the Rings or whatever.
Last edit: 10 Jun 2021 14:03 by DarthJoJo.

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10 Jun 2021 14:05 - 10 Jun 2021 17:17 #323855 by mads b.
Replied by mads b. on topic Battlestar Atlantica?
As a fan of the original game the first preview tells me absolutely nothing that persuades me to look closer at it. It looks entirely like a reskin rather than a reimagening.
Last edit: 10 Jun 2021 17:17 by mads b.. Reason: spelled reskin wrong. The game does not look like it's made of resin.

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10 Jun 2021 15:27 #323858 by Shellhead
Replied by Shellhead on topic Battlestar Atlantica?
Randomly saw this cartoon while taking a late lunch break:

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10 Jun 2021 16:48 #323866 by dysjunct
Replied by dysjunct on topic Battlestar Atlantica?

charlest wrote: It feels like a plastic knock-off our cultural paranoia embedded in the BSG reboot as 9/11 and our collective trauma and suspicion were so intrinsically wed to that property.


So what's our current collective trauma, and what game should we play to explore it?

Climate change? The collapse of democracy?
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10 Jun 2021 17:03 - 10 Jun 2021 17:07 #323868 by charlest
Replied by charlest on topic Battlestar Atlantica?
Well, we haven't had a game about the pandemic yet or that's been born out of this moment of isolation. Meltwater could address climate change, but I haven't played it.

But I was talking about the show, which the game distilled.

You could argue I suppose that Lovecraft Country is tied to current societal issues.

Edit I lied - I'd argue that Rocky Mountain Man owes much of its creation to the pandemic. I believe Nate Hayden even mentioned that he wanted a solitaire game for people to play in isolation. It was the main angle of my own article on it.
Last edit: 10 Jun 2021 17:07 by charlest.

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10 Jun 2021 18:00 #323872 by Sagrilarus
Replied by Sagrilarus on topic Battlestar Atlantica?
I think y’all are crazy. I think it was just a good game about a cool TV show with spaceships.
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10 Jun 2021 19:37 #323879 by Kmann
Replied by Kmann on topic Battlestar Atlantica?
BSG is a classic because its BSG. The game and mechanics were great, sure, but it's so beloved because it put you and your friends into the show.

This very much reminds me of the situation with Dune and FFG's other reskin job Twilight Imperium: Dune. Which, from what I recall, was a decent reskin with some QOL improvements. But it never took off because despite being Dune, it wasn't Dune.

I played BSG with loads of people who hadn't watched the show and they really got into it.I'm sure Battlestar Atlantica will be the same. It'll be fine and probably boast some minor QOL improvements over the original.

Those that haven't played BSG, or didn't watch BSG, will no doubt enjoy it while also not understanding what all the fuss is about. But it won't capture the BSG feel because for those that loved it that was the game.
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11 Jun 2021 08:44 #323888 by Erik Twice
Replied by Erik Twice on topic Battlestar Atlantica?
Rex had very serious changes in its ruleset that significantly worsened the game and its balance. A sloppy setting wasn't just the reason behind its failure. For example, the game had twice as much money as the original, which is game-breaking.

Personally, I haven't seen BSG but I enjoy the game a lot.
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11 Jun 2021 09:05 - 11 Jun 2021 09:17 #323892 by san il defanso
I get being disappointed with the re-theme, both because the original game was so well-suited to it, and because Lovecraftian stuff has been done to death. But I am picking up a vibe of gatekeeping in a lot of these comments. Like, what are people supposed to do? Shell out for a second-hand copy of the original game?

Don't get me wrong, I totally get the disappointment. But it does seem a little churlish to talk about what a transformative game the original was, and then to say that literally the ONLY way to get the game in any form at retail is not acceptable. I mean, that might be the case, but what other recourse do people have? Should the game simply not be available anymore? Maybe that's the way to go, but that's far from an ideal solution.

And believe me, I am one of those who would much rather see a game with a totally original theme, inspired by BSG. Actually I'm pretty sure that game exists in some form, though I'm not the fan of the genre I once was, so I don't know for sure. Either way, this absolutely does feel lazy and not very understanding of what made the original game great. I just think the options available to people are pretty limited, and a lot of the comments here are informed by people who either already own the original game, or played it so much that they never need to again. BSG is a huge part not just of the hobby, but of this particular site's history, and so I think some of us might have more of a personal stake in this than we're letting on.

ErikTwice is right about Rex; the theme change was an issue, but the big problem were all the other tweaks. It turns out that Dune's original design benefitted greatly from its slow pace in a way that Rex simply did not understand. The original BSG is not nearly that strong a design, as good as it was.
Last edit: 11 Jun 2021 09:17 by san il defanso.
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11 Jun 2021 09:16 - 11 Jun 2021 09:17 #323893 by charlest
Replied by charlest on topic Battlestar Atlantica?
I'm not taking the hard stance Michael has taken (particularly if you follow him on Twitter you will see his full opinion).

I simply agree that this loses some of the cultural significance that BSG possessed, which diminishes the game in my eyes.

I do think it's better to have Unfathomable than nothing at all.

Personally though, I wish they'd spend their time on brand new games rather than reskinning old ones. This is coming from someone who regrets selling BSG years ago and no longer has a way to play it.
Last edit: 11 Jun 2021 09:17 by charlest.
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11 Jun 2021 09:24 #323894 by san il defanso
Yeah, that's basically how I feel too. This is better than nothing, but only just, in the sense that the game is technically available.

I regret selling my copy, partially because I let it go for a song, but also because more than just about any game in the world, I have some deep emotional ties to BSG. I'm really not in a position to play the game clear-eyed ever again. But it's also true that by the time I sold it off I was too intimately familiar with the game's quirks for it to really "work" for me any more. Those noting that the theme is tied to a very 2000's sense of time and place aren't kidding. That's true of both the thematic qualities, and the license, which lost all its cache not long after the show ended.

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11 Jun 2021 09:41 - 11 Jun 2021 14:51 #323898 by Sagrilarus
Replied by Sagrilarus on topic Battlestar Atlantica?

san il defanso wrote: I get being disappointed with the re-theme, both because the original game was so well-suited to it, and because Lovecraftian stuff has been done to death. But I am picking up a vibe of gatekeeping in a lot of these comments. Like, what are people supposed to do? Shell out for a second-hand copy of the original game?

Don't get me wrong, I totally get the disappointment. But it does seem a little churlish to talk about what a transformative game the original was, and then to say that literally the ONLY way to get the game in any form at retail is not acceptable. I mean, that might be the case, but what other recourse do people have? Should the game simply not be available anymore? Maybe that's the way to go, but that's far from an ideal solution.

And believe me, I am one of those who would much rather see a game with a totally original theme, inspired by BSG. Actually I'm pretty sure that game exists in some form, though I'm not the fan of the genre I once was, so I don't know for sure. Either way, this absolutely does feel lazy and not very understanding of what made the original game great. I just think the options available to people are pretty limited, and a lot of the comments here are informed by people who either already own the original game, or played it so much that they never need to again. BSG is a huge part not just of the hobby, but of this particular site's history, and so I think some of us might have more of a personal stake in this than we're letting on.

ErikTwice is right about Rex; the theme change was an issue, but the big problem were all the other tweaks. It turns out that Dune's original design benefitted greatly from its slow pace in a way that Rex simply did not understand. The original BSG is not nearly that strong a design, as good as it was.


This is well written. But I think only a couple of people were overwrought in their comments, the rest seem pretty tame. And I'm not sure I'd call it gate keeping because they don't really say No to anyone.

On occasion BSG could be a stellar play. Generally it's good, occasionally it's a pleasure cruise where you want to reset and start again. When it first came out the TV show hadn't imploded yet so it was a magic moment when it was a great value-add to the setting.

With all that in mind, FFG no longer owns the IP (I think Ares has it). So they have a product that's in demand in the hopper earning them nothing. You put your eggheads on new products, you put your apprentices on a retheme of something. It gets them spun up on corporate game design and it will sell 15,000 copies by Christmas. That keeps your eggheads paid while they deliver something new.

This "it costs $500" thing generally amuses me, because if you really want to play the game just go find a copy and play it. There's one at my local game store that no one pulls down. It's been on the bottom of its pile for as long as I can remember. You only need to pay $500 if you want to own it. That's a different hobby.
Last edit: 11 Jun 2021 14:51 by Sagrilarus.
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11 Jun 2021 09:43 #323899 by Jackwraith
Replied by Jackwraith on topic Battlestar Atlantica?

charlest wrote: Personally though, I wish they'd spend their time on brand new games rather than reskinning old ones.


Right. That's what I meant. Doing a retread is just kind of boring and predictable. It's not something that's going to excite me because I've played BSG (and didn't really care for it.) If other people are geeked about it, have at it. Nothing wrong with that. It's just another in a long list of recent releases from FFG that has zero interest or intrigue for me, but that's just me.

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