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September 18, 2021
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September 16, 2021
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Quick, Simple Fun: High Society

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Andi Lennon
September 15, 2021
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oliverkinne
September 14, 2021
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Play and Pass

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September 13, 2021
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September 13, 2021
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September 10, 2021
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Karuba Board Game Review

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September 10, 2021
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September 09, 2021
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September 09, 2021
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September 08, 2021
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Mariposas - a Punchboard Review

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September 07, 2021
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Paring down

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September 03, 2021
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September 03, 2021
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Earthenwar Review

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Bugs: Recent Topics Paging, Uploading Images & Preview (11 Dec 2020)

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× Talk about the latest and greatest AT, and the Classics.

Descent definitely totally not 3.0

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28 Jul 2021 16:56 #324990 by jpat
With a USD$175 retail price tag, its self-proclaimed promise to be the "definitive" dungeon crawler, its protestations of not being Descent 3e, limited prerelease information from FFG, a widely panned FFG-run (partial) live play, and a partially botched international rollout (with some people already getting the game by mistake in advance of the official release date and even app availability), will Legends of the Dark be the spectacular faceplant that some chatterers are expecting? No one really knows, and I'm not really rooting for it, but the game has some of the hallmarks of a January film release. FFG's site tries to redirect everyone to the Descent: LotD mini-site, but there's almost nothing there, and nothing really new, just some fluffy articles from June. The game (as of 7/28) can't be preordered from their site, not even late-preordered. Is it even worth talking about until release, when more information should be available? Probably not, but it does seem in some ways like a sign of the times.
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28 Jul 2021 17:01 #324991 by Ah_Pook
People willing to throw $180 at this seem like crazy people to me, but that also goes for a lot of the big Kickstarter money sinks that this is positioning itself against so maybe that's a me issue.
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28 Jul 2021 17:03 #324992 by hotseatgames
I had not heard that it was not officially Descent 3rd edition. I am confused as to how it could be anything BUT Descent 3rd edition.

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28 Jul 2021 17:18 #324994 by charlest
It's the third Descent game and it's a dungeon crawl. Ain't fooling anyone.
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28 Jul 2021 17:23 #324995 by Gary Sax
Asmodee seems to be at complete sixes and sevens with its releases and production times right now. Almost certainly pandemic related.

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28 Jul 2021 17:38 #324997 by Msample

Gary Sax wrote: Asmodee seems to be at complete sixes and sevens with its releases and production times right now. Almost certainly pandemic related.


While the pandemic is certainly a huge factor, I gotta wonder how much FFG institutional knowledge left the building since FFG got gutted. That’s gotta be a factor as well .
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28 Jul 2021 22:07 #325001 by Michael Barnes
I dunno I’m curious and I think it could be pretty neat but I’m simply not paying that much for it. I’m not an anti-app assists Luddite but I’m also not confident that the game isn’t going to feel like a app game with an external, on the table component. The terrain, whatever, I have 4 toolboxes of Warlock tiles and scenery. I do really like the art style and I’m all for a modern, progressive game in tbis genre...but oh yeah. Price. Never mind.
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28 Jul 2021 22:58 #325004 by Shellhead

Msample wrote:

Gary Sax wrote: Asmodee seems to be at complete sixes and sevens with its releases and production times right now. Almost certainly pandemic related.


While the pandemic is certainly a huge factor, I gotta wonder how much FFG institutional knowledge left the building since FFG got gutted. That’s gotta be a factor as well .


Venture capitalists have been hollowing out Asmodee and FFG since at least two years before the pandemic.

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29 Jul 2021 02:29 #325007 by Space Ghost
The main terrain they show looks directly lifted from Dark World
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29 Jul 2021 06:01 #325008 by southernman
I quite enjoyed Dark World when I played it 15 odd years ago with my lad when he was a young'un, with the walls/doors and other 3D scenery worth the price of the game itself.
The thing that is a real bummer is we can't use and Descent 2e content with it, but then why would any company allow you to use old stock with their new product ... but old FFG were known for upgrade kits (Descent 1e, Mansions of Madness 1e) to keep current players interested. If they said that they would be creating electronic scenarios that would use Descent 2e content then I would definitely show more interest.

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29 Jul 2021 09:34 #325010 by jpat

Ah_Pook wrote: People willing to throw $180 at this seem like crazy people to me, but that also goes for a lot of the big Kickstarter money sinks that this is positioning itself against so maybe that's a me issue.


It's basically Kickstarter money (on the part of consumers) with the opacity of traditional publishing, although this level of opacity seems unusual for FFG, even after their sale to Asmodee.
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29 Jul 2021 10:30 - 29 Jul 2021 10:33 #325013 by charlest
While this game may succeed or fail on its own merits, I think directly competing with Kickstarter games and hitting such a price point is a strategy doomed to fail.

One thing that seems to be misunderstood about the big Kickstarter games is the financial incentive for consumers. Yes, there are strong financial incentives to back these $100-$300 Kickstarter games.

The thing about these games is that they not only hold their resale value, but there's incredible upside. Check out Ankh on BGG. It has already sold second hand for $500 a few times. All of these big games follow this and resell for incredible profit.

What this means is that people who have this type of money in their hobby budget, if they're on the fence concerning the game itself, they may as well back and just resell if they decide they don't want it.

BoardGameCo, Alex R., Has created an entire brand and YouTube Channel that he is close to moving full time on simply due to the commodity aspect of board games and Kickstarters. Every week he releases videos discussing whether you should back that week's hot KS game and the discussion is 100% from a value perspective.

He made a comment in a recent CMON video about how backers should buy 10 extra copies of an add-on because they will resell for a huge profit.

He made another comment in a different video last week where he said a particular game didn't look great to him, but he was backing it anyway because it would hold its value.

I got into a lengthy discussion with an employee at Leder Games on Twitter about this when my Polygon Kickstarter article dropped. The Leder employee didn't agree or understand that people back games because primarily from a financial incentive. He said no one is backing a game they didn't really want based on the game itself, and he's dead wrong.

All of this is to say that there is not a financial incentive to back Descent 3rd. It will be difficult to resell because you're competing with the MM and Amazon who have free shipping.

If Descent succeeds it will be because the game itself gets a ton of buzz, but it's an uphill battle.

This financial incentive for consumers is also why the Kickstarter model is broken and the cycle won't be stopped until something catastrophic happens, like a few big KSers failing to deliver to the shipping crisis.
Last edit: 29 Jul 2021 10:33 by charlest.

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29 Jul 2021 10:48 #325015 by Michael Barnes
Yikes. That kind of speculation calls to mind comics and sports cards in the 90s. In fact, the entire games industry is really in that mode right now. It doesn’t end well.

It definitely seems like FFG is trying to go for the KS money but...yeah, look at KS in the same price range and it looks pretty paltry. Even compared to something like Too Many Bones, the value doesn’t seem to be there. And there simply any incentive to go with a game that could very well flop and wind up on the FFG holiday sale next year. Aren’t they offering like an exclusive cardboard dial or something in stores. LOL.

I’m really tempted to get it because I either want to be the one saying “y’all shut up, this is great” -or- “FFG’s last desperate grasp for relevancy”.
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29 Jul 2021 10:51 #325016 by Gary Sax
Well normally I'd say you can get a review copy but lol.

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29 Jul 2021 11:11 #325017 by Sagrilarus

Gary Sax wrote: Well normally I'd say you can get a review copy but lol.


The people that banned him are long gone.

The fact that there is a video channel dedicated to purchasing for speculative reasons means that the air is already leaving the balloon. You can't win a speculative market if everyone else is doing the same thing you are, and a channel telling you all what to do in unison . . .

That said, I've been saying big Kickstarters are fubar for years now and people just keep buying.

Heck, at least baseball cards are small and easy to store. But 10 of each add-on? Where y'all puttin' this stuff?
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