Game Balance vs the Magic moment of rolling a 20

"De-lurks"

I've been here in the shadows reading many posts since my last post, and was hoping somebody here can clarify the syndrome I have been trying to explain to people in other discussion spots.

I have been playing a lot of skirmish games since I reformed from Warhammer 40K powergamer/tournament regular.
I know there a lot of people here who at least dabble or are interested in minis gaming / skirmish minis gaming.

Some of the rule resolutions in certain games just fall flat on me, and I've started to pinpoint it's the dissatsifying way in which player combat is resolved. I wonder if anybody else feels this way or feels it is a flaw.

Certain games have a dice roll or opposed dice roll that has a non satisfying end after you roll , as the agressor, to be specific: very well.
I am not sure if years of what a natural 20 meant in Dungeons and Dragons, or sixes always hit/wound in Warhammer has brainwashed me to thinking something big should happen when I see the die stop on that number! (or something similar )

I have only played a couple of these a couple of times so I may not be 100% on the rules but here is a few examples:

Case1: The demo of infinity I played (not sure if it was the new edition) the better I rolled in my shooting , the more space was given for my enemy to roll under my roll, which benefits them with some kind of counter shot. I don't remember exactly, but if I needed a 6 to hit on the d20 rolling a 7 was a better hit than a 20, even though I need to roll high to hit, rolling too high gave opportunities to my enemy to shoot me back.

Case 2: Fallout minis game. For some game balance reason, I think anyway, rolling a huge hit give the defender extra defense dice to thwart your excellent roll! So on a rising dice power system of white/blue /red. I rig up a three red dice attack on their white defense. but I roll max damage, for some reason they get bonus armor dice! I'm like "Can I opt to forgoe the number of hits I got down a few to not let them get this extra dice?"

Case 3 : Frostgrave.(not sure which edition) I roll a 20! (or a 19 or whatever, there might be an actual bonus here for a 20 instead of a 19) sweet years of DnD has taught me something excellent will happen for me, and I get a small thrill. Nope my opponent also rolled very high and damage is based off of the difference in our rolls so nothing or next to nothing has happened due to their armor. This is the least troubling of the three examples. It's jiust disappointing and not actually being punished for doing well.

There is just soemthing unsatisfying about rolling extremely well and having it be punished or have low to zero results. It turned me off to these games to a certain extent, that tiny moment of dice chuckling excitement gets rejected like when those athletic kids knocked away my basketball shots in middle school, and it just takes away from the fun of the dice game aspects.

All this is a very weird hang up since I've moved onto minis games that are primarily narrative driven and nobody really cares who wins anyways, but that's a different post.

Every game should have exploding dice.

I think that some gamers have trouble processing strong emotions, so it is important for them to stick to games with considerable luck mitigation. Otherwise, they might encounter overpowering sensations like jubilation or crushing disappointment and spiral into madness. Some of these gamers have become game designers, or else influential playtesters. As a result, we get thematic games that have been sabotaged by excessive luck mitigation. For similar reasons, some designers are overly concerned about keeping player VP totals close until the end of the game.

Heroscape has one of the best dice systems I’ve encountered in minis gaming. There’s opposed skulls v. shields like Heroquest and Battlemasters before it, then d20 for initiative and special powers. It features an Orc on a T-Rex that boosts the attack and defense dice of its adjacent warriors, and an ability called Chomp which can auto-kill a squad figure, or go for a d20 roll (16+) to kill a small or medium Hero outright.

charlest wrote: Every game should have exploding dice.

The single greatest mechanic ever invented.

Yeah, both The Others and Chaos in the Old World use exploding dice and it is a great mechanic for raising the excitement level at the table when someone gets on a (ahem) roll with their 6s or whatever. I like it, but I confess to always having found the "natural 20" concept to be mildly ridiculous. Combat tables are always constructed to convey the margin of odds. If you need a 16 to hit something and a 12 to hit something else, obviously the odds against and, thus, difficulty of hitting the first thing is greater, making hitting that tougher thing more exciting. But a 20 is a single result on a 20-sided die, which means the odds of rolling one are exactly the same as any other result. Unless you could only hit something on that 20, the idea that it should convey some kind of bonus seems just as irrational as saying that someone should get something special for rolling an 8.

charlest wrote: Every game should have exploding dice.

A kickstarter for ACTUAL EXPLODING DICE (maybe a little coiled spring that busts the dice apart if it lands a certain way) would be the #1 KS EVER, even Brandon Sanderson would tremble before it

I get the OP though. I prefer a dice roll that has all the variable factored in BEFORE the dice roll (i.e. enemy armor, my choice of ammo, exhaustion, range, etc) so on the roll itself I know exactly what result I need to get for success. This is the dopamine hit of the critical 20, you don't care about the odds, it always hits (and the natural 1 always a shriek inducing miss).

Opposed die rolls and then counting icons is ok so long as the dice are chunky and the results quick to read. But rolling the dice and then doing some math and calculations is always an energy drain to me for a combat roll.

jason10mm wrote:

charlest wrote: Every game should have exploding dice.

I get the OP though. I prefer a dice roll that has all the variable factored in BEFORE the dice roll (i.e. enemy armor, my choice of ammo, exhaustion, range, etc) so on the roll itself I know exactly what result I need to get for success. This is the dopamine hit of the critical 20, you don't care about the odds, it always hits (and the natural 1 always a shriek inducing miss).

Opposed die rolls and then counting icons is ok so long as the dice are chunky and the results quick to read. But rolling the dice and then doing some math and calculations is always an energy drain to me for a combat roll.

I agree, and the real buzz kill is when you roll the dice and then spend time using various game resources to improve the die roll. Kills the excitement, kills the momentum, kills the fun.

I don't have much to add, but I just wanted to say that this is a really interesting topic that I hope gets more discussion. I recommend Smeagol be promoted to a d6 immediately.

Every game needs a magical moment.