GMT Grand Prix thoughts?

In the last three years my spouse and I have become huge F1 fans. I've never cared for Formula De. I saw GMT's Grand Prix at the used book store for 37 bucks and I thought about using some of my mountain of store credit on it.

Anyone have any opinions on it? I saw Barnes liked it reasonably well 5+ years ago but other people don't, often saying it's worse then Thunder Alley... then describing some quintessential F1 stuff they don't like about Grand Prix (eg hard to pass). My spouse and I are fans of the nitty gritty big picture strategy of F1 so the crazy euro one people like (Race Formula 90) might be a better fit, I probably should have backed it when they offered a 2nd edition.

I've heard nothing but high praise for Race Formula 90, while Grand Prix seemed to be mostly disappointment after the success of Thunder Alley. I was very enthusiastic about Thunder Alley when it first came out, but never tried this one, or the newer post-apocalyptic design from the Horgers.

Yeah, I'm kicking myself I missed race Formula 90.

We need to talk offline, or even here in site regarding the new season. I've always been a casual Ferrari F1 fan since the early 80s. I've gotten into it the last couple years and even following F2 now as well.

With our new move, I'm going to try to get a group together for a season of CFR - Championship Formula Racing. Looks like I might need to look at Race Formula 90.

I've followed F1 for four or five years now.

The issue I have with a lot of racing games is that they're about the syndicate, not the racer. That doesn't feel satisfying to me personally. It seems to me that you should win a race game by being the first guy across the line. And like it or not, luck absolutely has to be a significant part of the mix. This just doesn't seem to be a driving force amongst most of these games, with the exception of Formula De which everyone complains has too much luck in it. So I'm kinda torn.

Now I just started playing VektoRace on BGA which apparently is only available in Europe, and it's a true racing game with one car per player and first across the line wins. It's vector driven (not much luck), but there's lots of room for shenanigans (luck returns). I'm liking it so far.

Do you mean circuit rather than syndicate? In my head, that word change makes your explanation make sense. Winning by driving well rather than gaming the circuit like in Rallyman or Speed Circuit where there are proscribed spaces that can be blocked.

I'm willing to accept some circuit "gaming", but it does get a little aggravating when it looks like you have a good line and come up against a slower car you can't pass. However, that does happen in circuit racing, so I have to chalk that stuff up to an abstract driver defense action. I feel you should be able to have a defense challenge roll to execute those passes and I seem to recall Speed Circuit did or CFR does.

Soooo F1 thread next? Go Charles! Go KMag! I also have a Gunther Steiner shirt I like to wear on race day.

Disclosure: I have a copy of Grand Prix on the marketplace, so I'm arguing against interest here a little bit.

I've really wanted to like GP, but here are my BGG comments on it (for a rating of 6):

Too early to be sure, but, sadly, it seems to play less well than Thunder Alley--"sadly" because I prefer the F1 theme. The NPC cars are part of the issue, but I think the bigger issue for me may be that the twists and turns in the track and the many narrowings and broadenings make it easier than in TA to segment chains of cars and leave more cars stranded, slowing things down. Right now, I'd probably play again just to help confirm or deny my initial impression, but I think I'd rather play TA or Formula D (the latter obviously being a very different game, but one that so far seems to scratch the F1 racing itch better).

With regard to the cars: The light/dark car sides are just insufficiently distinguishable, and this is a crucial mechanic, no pun intended. The problem's been acknowledged, and the problem is easily enough fixed with either a Sharpie or some dot stickers, but it's near crippling in some cases if unaddressed. Jeff's said that it was a computer-versus-paper issue, but I'm not sure that a person would've easily recognized the problem even if they'd gone through paper proofs *unless* individual cars were punched out and front and back compared. When you look at the unpunched countersheet, it actually looks like there's a highly visible difference because of the "massing" of the grayscreen on the "dark" sides of the unpunched cars, but once you punch out a single car and compare the front of one to the back of the other, the problem becomes immediately apparent. Like I said, it's understandable and home-fixable, but it's unfortunate that QC issues continue to dog this series. (In TA first printing, it was the failure to have both a light and a dark side to the 1st player marker.)

Thank you! That is really helpful. Maybe I'll hunt down a copy of 2nd edition racing formula 90 when it comes out instead. I don't need another toad, even with the low price.

the_jake_1973 wrote: Do you mean circuit rather than syndicate?

No, I mean syndicate. My most recent game of Thunder Alley had me taking 1st and 2nd place in the race but I lost because each of us had to total up six cars and I had two cars hobbled by events at the back of the pack. So the guy with a bunch of cars that finished in the middle scored more than me.

Not that I cared all THAT much, but . . . I mean, you're supposed to care a little, right?

Don't know how Grand Prix handles that concept. May be better, if it's only two cars like F-1 likely taking the win puts you in a good place.

As for that light and dark thing -- we immediately changed the approach to playing light-to-dark every single turn. I can't believe no one in GMT's testing discovered how much less likely that is to fubar the game, and how much more intuitive the game state is. At that point you can just plunk a sticker down on the dark side to better indicate it's a spent piece.

I see what you are saying now. That would be very disappointing to win based on a team finish rather than a proper 1st place. F1 should be limited to 2 cars per team, but even so, the win condition ought to be first past the post.

Gary Sax: and I thought about using some of my mountain of store credit on it.

Our bookstore began severely reducing the credit they offer for used books, which in the short term increased their profits, but in the long term has filtered out anything weird or interesting. Now they have to buy overstock books and stock from stores that are closing, and everything feels a little blander, but that could also be false nostalgia stemming from my tastes having narrowed considerably in the last five years or so of buying/hoarding used books from our local library sales.

Our local place will take almost anything and give you a bad return in money but an average return on store credit. It's great. Combine that with the fact our town doesn't have a normal game store and you get all sorts of weird gems coming through because people have nowhere else to shop and definitely nowhere else to sell.