Arcs

There's a little rumbling in the kickstarter thread since the project launched, but I thought I'd start a dedicated thread for Arcs by Leder Games. Some TWBGers have been playing the prototype so there is some basis for discussion.

From the streams I've watched, the standalone module feels pretty flat to me, missing everything I like about Wehrle's designs. I think the campaign purchase is pretty vital for anyone who is a game fanatic enough to visit this site. I completely understand the way they've designed it. It opens up lots of campaign possibilities and has an approachable price point that might have groups that aren't into These Games of Ours Online play it---just like Root---but I think it's missing a lot in the base form based on these playthroughs.

It was only when I finally watched the Leder Games stream of experienced gamers playing the campaign version (quick 3 game campaigns in Arcs) that I went and kickstarter it. I added the minis to my kickstarter but I'm not sure they're worth it as the wood is just fine---this game doesn't have a lot of unique pieces or sculpts anyway. I may still pull them off my pledge.

Here's that leder campaign play. Arcs is a very short, bite size session. Probably more concise than Root which hustles along with experienced players very quickly.

www.twitch.tv/videos/1309739489

One of the Leder guys lives near me and last Wednesday he ran a standalone game with a prototype. I didn't play but I watched. Honestly it seemed kind of dull. As a standalone game it didn't seem to offer anything you can't get with a million other titles. The "trick-taking", which was the thing that piqued my interest, is completely flat. Cards have a suit (action), a numerical value, and pips (number of times you can take the action). Leader leads a suit. You can raise (same suit, higher value) to get all your pips. You can copy (any card face down) to do the leader's action with one pip. Or you can "pivot", play a different suit to do that action instead with one pip. It just didn't seem interesting to me, but again, I did not play it.

My buddy who did play said a lot will hinge on the campaign mode, but as is he'd rather play Root or Oath, both of which he has but never gets to play.

I agree with pretty much everything you've said. My initial thought is that the base game is like they're trying to sell a game system in an RPG without any meaningful setting. When I watched the campaign playthrough it made sense to me finally because it added the actual setting and flavor to the mechanical skeleton.

I feel like Wehrle is pretty inspired by trying to carve as much fat as possible off the core design ideas of Twilight Imperium in this design.

I’m playing again tonight but my first play of the base game was a bit sterile but still an interesting little puzzle. I can see it being developed into an interesting game but I know my preference will be for the wildness of the campaign game. The card play is such a minor part of the game that billing this as trick taking is misleading.

I played the Arcs prototype yesterday on TTS with some people here and friends of the site. I liked the core trick taking action selection loop pretty well, and the bones are good and promising. But the prototype is as dry as an overdone Thanksgiving turkey because of the way objectives swing through the game and many of then are pretty arbitrary.

I'm kickstarting it but I don't plan to play it again until it's almost finished. It needs flavor and I'm confident in Leder's ability to provide that. If I were you, I'd definitely get the campaign add on or not get it at all... this could change, they could make the core game more flavorful. Just based on the playtest.

Based on these middling previews, my interest has cooled from "definitely" to "maybe" to "hype it up to the guy in my group with a good job but no mortgage or kids yet, play his copy."

Gary Sax wrote: I'm kickstarting it but I don't plan to play it again until it's almost finished.

How many KS broken dreams start like that?

hotseatgames wrote:

Gary Sax wrote: I'm kickstarting it but I don't plan to play it again until it's almost finished.

How many KS broken dreams start like that?

None (for me) from Cole so far. I think some skepticism is healthy. He's definitely plowing his own furrow of what's important in a game to him. Some people really like that, and some people bounce off it hard.

This isn't super unusual, other than he's become a big name in the community, and so there's a lot more attention on this project than there would otherwise be. Oath in the development stages was a total mess. (some think it still is!). John Company went through tons of revisions to get where it is. He opens the process pretty early, which I think works against him because a lot of eyes are watching the sausage get made now.

There's a good game in there, but it's not ready yet. The campaign mode "big game" has a lot more appeal, but there are a lot of rough edges clearly in that too. Having seen what they can do to firm up a game for release, I'm still in. The thing is funded (I helped), so nobody has to have FOMO panic, it'll get there.

And it won't be the game everyone wants, and it will be divisive. I like that aspect of Wehrle designs, and they hit the right highs for me.

It's sort of a shame that John Company 2E hasn't hit the street yet, as I think that's his best game, but it went through a lot of this shaky "not fun yet" stage in playtesting. It was enough that our core TWBG group all walked away for a while because we wanted to spend time doing other things, not watching the tree grow. The soon-to-be-shipping version is one of my favorite games, though.

I wouldn't write it off, but there's no reason you have to throw money at it now if you're skeptical. It's still just going to be a game, after all.

Not Sure wrote: And it won't be the game everyone wants, and it will be divisive. I like that aspect of Wehrle designs, and they hit the right highs for me.

This. I think one of the best statements Leder/Cole have made is that: "We're making someone's favorite game. Not everyone's." Cole's designs do weird things and I appreciate that. I'm interested in exploring the nooks and crannies of his approach and it has always paid off in the end. Root, Pax Pamir 2nd, Oath; all can be listed among my favorites at the moment and I expect John Company 2nd to be listed among them. I'm not especially enthused by what's appearing in Arcs right now. It's interesting, but not compelling. But it's also slated for delivery in December, 2023, which means there's plenty of time for them to sort it out. Like Not Sure, I backed it because it's Cole and he's among the three or four designers I'm actually willing to engage KS or its rivals for (I also backed Tiny Epic Vikings because it's Scott Almes.) I'm not really concerned about it, at this point.

The most compelling part to me is the campaign stream I inlined up above and that they're continuing tomorrow afternoon, if you want to see what the potential promise of the game is beyond the tight short form 4x represented by the base game.

edit: since it seems like I'm damning it with faint praise, I want to mention that I think the combat in this game is really good. One roll, but you choose how hard you want to go and how much risk your ships take depending on the dice you choose.

dysjunct wrote: Based on these middling previews, my interest has cooled from "definitely" to "maybe" to "hype it up to the guy in my group with a good job but no mortgage or kids yet, play his copy."

D I S A S T E R

That guy in my group is not going to pledge for Arcs. Apparently Wehrle is hit and miss for him. Dang it.

haha. Hard choices.