Imperial Struggle, follow-up to Twilight Struggle

I agree; I don't think that "point salad" is a slander here so much as an acknowledgement of the way eurogames have moved in the last 10 years and its influence on the design. That said, IS is so much work. That's where it falls flat with me.

Msample wrote: It may have elements of point salad, but unlike the vast majority of point salad Euros, this game has a coherent narrative to go with the game play.

Exactly, that is why I can forgive Imperial Struggles and some Euro point salad games like Great Western Trails but absolutely hate others point salad games like anything by Stephan Feld.

So I guess this thing sold out, GMT has it "out of stock" and put a 2nd Edition reprint up for P500 today. Also there's an errata pack coming for the missing dots and some card mistakes (automatic for P500 orders, or contact GMT).

The first edition had over 5000 pre-orders, so that seems like a lot of copies to shift.

I need to get back to this game, the Oath beta sort of stole its game time for me right after Sax and I had played a couple.

I'd definitely play again. Still really want to play some oath more, but it's more players so a harder thing to schedule. Hit me up if you want to schedule something, work has been absolutely crushing this last month.

So I've been playing this with a family member... I think it's very good with the same sort of significant caveats as Twilight Struggle but with a much juicier and more interesting round to round activity (tile drafting).

You really, really have to track control flags religiously by region with actual physical tracking.

Gary Sax wrote: So I've been playing this with a family member... I think it's very good with the same sort of significant caveats as Twilight Struggle but with a much juicier and more interesting round to round activity (tile drafting).

You really, really have to track control flags religiously by region with actual physical tracking.

We use dice for both region control as well as trade goods and Prestige spaces.

We also put War tiles in stands ( facing the owner ) so we can see at a glance all the tiles.

I legitimately don't know if I have what it takes to play this game. I just cannot seem keep all the plates spinning in my head. I got my ass kicked, in most areas of the game, but in large part because I cannot keep track of everything, *especially* the wars. I only seem to be able to keep track of the board state.

Are you playing VASSAL or FtF?

I played a live tts game last night. I'm going to suggest vassal next for tracking reasons.

I guess what I'm saying this time is I'm struggling to keep the plates spinning strategically, not from a pure mechanical standpoint. I cannot seem to keep board position while also burnishing the war tile bag.

I find this game much more stressful than Twilight Struggle. Which isn't a criticism, I'm just frustrated with my ability to play well.

I actually find TS more stressful. I think its because there the event card deal puts more stress on the players thru scoring cards and opponents events, whereas in IS there are not only fewer event cards, but no fear of triggering opponent events and scoring is a known quantity in terms of when it happens. In TS the knowledge of a scoring card in your hand is offset by the fact that playing it makes you essentially pass that round - if your board state is bad, it can get worse because of this.

Yeah, different kind of stress so i guess this one hurts my psychographic more. I feel this long term "axe hanging over your head with the rope fraying" ratchet thing harder in IS than TS.

I think the game is better designed than TS, it's probably being underappreciated because it's a much heavier lift rules and especially attentionwise.

Yeah I am kind of surprised, esp given how many pre orders it had ( never mind selling out the entire first print run shortly after it landed ) how little discussion the game gets either on CSW or BGG. The subject matter may be less of a draw for some ( I find it more interesting than TS myself ) .

It scratches a different itch to be sure. For me, the sudden death thing doesn't feel as dire due to the absence of the equivalent of a DefCon track.

It is fascinating. I looked up imperial struggle strategy last night because I wanted some takes on how to manage wars vis a vis bonus tiles. Pretty much nothing!

I'm sure CSW has more so I'll poke in there at some point.

CSW is mostly rules questions and pre publication discussion.

Granted, being released during the pandemic and the resulting decrease in FtF would usually be the culprit for lack of buzz, but it is still puzzling IMO. I wonder if part of it is that CDG in general seem to be fading a bit in favor of ( barf ) COIN ? 15 years ago CDG were all the rage and there would be a half dozen in the pipeline for long periods of time. Now its COIN and to a less extent, the Levy/Campaign system ( NEVSKY ) which has as I understand it about a dozen titles in various stages of design/development. Or "CDG adjacent " lighter stuff like Fort Sumter et al.

Msample wrote: CSW is mostly rules questions and pre publication discussion.

Didn't CSW reboot its "Social" site into a new platform a couple years ago? I sometimes wonder how that's panned out (I never registered on it), because I haven't changed my subscriptions at all, but the rate at which new posts appear has really dropped off a cliff for me. Maybe that's a function of the age of the games I'm subscribed to, but I don't think it's my imagination.