Don't lie, you know you pre-ordered Agricola

Yeah, so maybe i'm a genre traitor.

But bullshit hype aside, I liked the initial session reports i read from people at essen.

I think the game actually has a strong theme. Yeah, it's farming i know...but if you've ever played a Harvest Moon title you know there is a strange allure to plowing and watering. Not to mention I actually have an interest in agriculture, mostly relating to it's historical importance in the development of our society. I have a couple books on this topic (sorry, i've got a degree in Social Studies Education so i'm a history guy).

I mean, whatever, i think the theme appears to fit the mechanics well. You get to build shit, plant crops, use what you've grown to do stuff like make bread, etc. Not to mention having more children means you get more actions in a turn, which is a great way to drive home the point that children are their parent's slaves.

It might be a little bit too multiplayer solitaire based on what i've read...but given that the only euros i really own are Carcassone and Settlers I think i'll be fine.

Of course the verdict on the game really is still out, and i wouln't be surprised if the game totally blew.

Also, Z-Man had the worst, most incompetent pre-order system i've ever seen in my life. He needs to take a look at how MMP and GMT do things.

But ultimately can't a guy like Descent and Agricola?

PS: Is Road to Legend out yet?

Having played both Agricola and Road to legend, I can confirm that one is THE shit, the other will make you choke on shit. So don't play them together.

I also don't preorder games I like, let alone Agricola.

I preordered Road to Legend.

Hopefully RtL knows how to do the heimlich.

By the way did you actually play Road to Legend?

::shrug::

If you like it, fine. If someone likes PR, fine. All I care about it the prosletyzing faction out there that says "OMG!! You MUST like this game!! You have to like this game!! Everybody who's anybody likes this game!!" That sort of attitude is pretty much a guarrantee that I'll never try the game.

--Mike L.

mtlawson wrote:

::shrug::

If you like it, fine. If someone likes PR, fine. All I care about it the prosletyzing faction out there that says "OMG!! You MUST like this game!! You have to like this game!! Everybody who's anybody likes this game!!" That sort of attitude is pretty much a guarrantee that I'll never try the game.

--Mike L.

Haha, that is a classic AT attitude. Doing something out of spite.

Like in multiplayer war/conquest games. Instead of trying to win you just do your best to stick it the player who fucked you over in the begining.

Lagduf wrote:

By the way did you actually play Road to Legend?

I was a playtester for an early version.

I would never preorder Agricola, especially given that it would have been made regardless. I most probably won't buy it once it's out, but I'd be curious to try it out. The best thing would be for it to run on BSW.

Mr Skeletor wrote:

Lagduf wrote:

By the way did you actually play Road to Legend?

I was a playtester for an early version.

I'm jealous.

Any idea how much has changed since you playtested?

I'm quite sure that Agricola has little to do with premodern agriculture. If expanding your family and flock and house is so damn simple, how come people in that era (and this is no longer the Dark Ages) have famines and very little long term economic growth?

Because of taxes, tithes, weather, war, plagues, pests, moneylenders, traders, shopkeepers, landlords, oppressive village traditions, cattle rustlers, gypsy curses, and later capitalist suppliers of farm tools and artificial fertiliser.

So acting like a little agricultural entrepreneur might apply to big Polish and East Prussian nobles, 18th century British tenant farmers and catch on due to educational programmes in the 19th and 20th century among western European farmers and white settler colonists abraod, for most peasants worldwide (and into the 21st century), farming was and is a constant struggle for life.

Which would make much more interesting games, richer thema and be perfect as AT (provided plastic pieces of all the above are included).

Lagduf wrote:

mtlawson wrote:

::shrug::

If you like it, fine. If someone likes PR, fine. All I care about it the prosletyzing faction out there that says "OMG!! You MUST like this game!! You have to like this game!! Everybody who's anybody likes this game!!" That sort of attitude is pretty much a guarrantee that I'll never try the game.

--Mike L.

Haha, that is a classic AT attitude. Doing something out of spite.

Like in multiplayer war/conquest games. Instead of trying to win you just do your best to stick it the player who fucked you over in the begining.

I don't consider it a classic AT attitude, but more of a contrarian attitude. Even thought I'm of the right age, I've never seen E.T., never seen Dances With Wolves (okay, about 15 minutes worth), and never seen Titanic. Something about enough people saying I must like something makes me ask "Why should I?"

--Mike L.

mtlawson wrote:

::shrug::

If you like it, fine. If someone likes PR, fine. All I care about it the prosletyzing faction out there that says "OMG!! You MUST like this game!! You have to like this game!! Everybody who's anybody likes this game!!" That sort of attitude is pretty much a guarrantee that I'll never try the game.

--Mike L.

To take this a step further, if I try a game and dislike it, don't bark at me like I'm a idiot who doesn't "get" the game or "you came into the game with the wrong expectation!"

I expect the game to entertain me. If it doesn't, then don't throw poo at me like a bunch of fanboy mon-keighs, hooting indignantly because I besmirched the game by saying it wasn't good. Take a look at the Samurai or Race for the Galaxy reviews if you think I'm exaggerating.

mtlawsen said "Something about enough people saying I must like something makes me ask "Why should I?""
Because it would be unsheeply of you not to. Which gets them unsettled and suspecting an AT wolf is around. And if they have to think about that, then they stop chewing the cud, start rolling their eyes and having a hissy fit.

Rliyen said "To take this a step further, if I try a game and dislike it, don't bark at me like I'm a idiot who doesn't "get" the game or "you came into the game with the wrong expectation!""
Then you're in breach of the almighty social contract! All euros are passive-aggressive touchy-feely incarnations of All That Is Good In This World. Ignore that and the pitchforks get sharpened and the torches set alight!

This is one of the WORST developments over at That Other Board Game Site- this whole “if you didn’t like it, you didn’t get it” attitude. I saw an article over there the other day where this guy was saying he didn’t like RACE FOR THE GALAXY. So all these people jumped on him and “couldn’t understand” why he thought there wasn’t any interaction (“But you can look at the other players' cards!”). There was much pedantic riffing on why the game is, in fact, great and how all these people “rather” like it. And then there’s the folks who’ve played the game umpteen million times and have discovered all of this hidden depth and sophistication that others clearly can’t see. But nobody says “hey, you didn’t like it…cool, whatever, I thought it was pretty good.”
It’s fucking horse shit. I’ve seen quite a few threads like this over there, many just recently and they all smack of this bizarro “what do you mean you don’t like it?” attitude. It’d be like if I came on here and called you all morons for not being able to fully experience the magic and wonder of a game of WRASSLIN’. What is it that makes these fuckers think that they have some special gift of discernment that enables them, over other people, to see this “encoded” greatness in games? I guess it’s the whole superiority complex- “I’m able to appreciate this but you aren’t”.

And what is it about RACE FOR THE GALAXY that inspires such passionate defense? Is it really that important to people that other people like the game? Oh yeah, the designer is involved on BGG and a bunch of folks played the game with him at a few game events…

AGRICOLA…I ain’t preordering. I’ll play it when an English version is out and make a decision on it then. Who knows, it might be fun. I just suspect that even if I did like it I’d probably play it 2-3 times and be done with it.

And let's not even get into the mentality that I saw expressed about the AGRICOLA prank--"Why do this to a game that is SO IMPORTANT to the hobby?"

No. It's important in the warped little vortex of THAT WEBSITE. Trust me, Hasbro isn't sweating little Agricola. I mean, they aren't sweating most other boardgaming companies either, but that's beside the point.

When a site's fandom is causing you to DISLIKE games more than like them...it's time to step away. I mean, I hate Agricola already and I've never even played it. If I did sit down for a game my opinion would be colored by all the people who acted like jackasses about it.

$70 is a lot of money for a game that doesn't look particularly innovative or new.