Let's Talk The Cube Tower (Shogun/Wallenstein)

I've had my eye on Queen Games' Shogun forever...in fact since that Barnes 'Euros I love' geeklist. It looks to me like a boardgame version of the old Koei SNES games I wasted countless hours of my youth on, but for some reason or another, i always picked up something else instead, so it'd get pushed down the to get list.

Anyway, I finally got a copy and plan to play it in the next week or two.

So, I understand that this and Wallenstein were very popular, yet I don't see the cube tower as a mechanic aped in other games. Was it not as well received as I thought? How exactly does the random number of cubes falling out map to any battle theme? Traitors in your army? Unexpected peasants joining a side?

What are FATties thoughts on not only Shogun and Wallenstein, but the cube tower in general.

The cube tower is a neat resolution mechanic. I enjoy it in Shogun but I don't know that I'd want it to be a thing where lots of games use it.

As far as why the cube tower hasn't made the jump into other games? I'd hazard a guess that it's difficult to calculate for balance. A designer using dice can work out the odds and percentages pretty easily, but it's quite a bit more difficult for something like a cube tower. And dice are cheap.

You can't cheaply and effectively prototype a cube tower so that kind of chucks it out the window for many designers. It's a neat idea but it would become grating if used often.

I played Wallenstein once and didn't enjoy it. The cube tower was an interesting idea, but it felt more gamey than thematic. The rest of the game felt very euro, with weak theme and arbitrary mechanics. I think that the cube tower could potentially work better with some other theme, but the presence of a tower in the game seems like an unwelcome expansion to the physical size and cost of the game.

Love Wallenstein - and the cube tower in practice feels the same as dice-based combat for all the chance involved.

That said, I prefer Wallenstein over Shogun mostly due to the map. Shogun's map has a few more easily defended areas while Wally is just wide open and therefore more violent.

My instinct is that it's because, thematically, you need a chaotic enough conflict where the bizarre results (MORE OF MY OWN GUYS!) can come out. I can think of some, but they'd mainly be some pretty hardcore wargame themes.

I love the self-balancing mechanics. If you lose a battle and have cubes trapped inside, they can aid you in the next battles.

I read somewhere that the cube tower's weird results actually reflects the state of wars in Germany at the time. Like, armies were basically non-professional soldiers and mercenaries. You'd see a lot of fights where soldiers from both sides would just run the hell away, and a fights where people would switch to the winning side so they wouldn't get shot or would get paid. So it's weird in game terms that you'd start a fight and wind up with more dudes than when you started, but it's apparently pretty historically accurate? Because history's weird, yo.

I freaking love the cube tower. Fights are usually pretty rare in Wallenstein, and having them be these big, dramatic events where you gather a handful of cubes and pour them into this clattering cardboard construction is fun. Then there's the tension as someone sorts out all the cubes that dumped out the bottom and figures out what actually happens. It's all awesome. It's probably not used much because it limits your armies to being represented by little wooden cubes, which isn't cool in the current "moar minis!" marketplace. And the stuff people said above.

I like El Grande's cube tower, although it functions far differently.

Seems to me you could just use a deck of cards (and a die maybe) to simulate a cube tower. I think engineering the actual tower itself is more the issue. You can make one out of wood and tune it all you like, but when the plastic once comes back from China all bets are off.

S.

Using a deck of cards misses the whole "it's fun to dump the cubes in the tower" bit. Like, sure you could also use an app to generate all the die rolls for Axis and Allies or something, but physically chucking buckets of dice is part of the appeal.

Also, the cube tower is cardboard with a plastic funnel and tray. China can't mess this one up with shoddy plastic!

Don't forget the "Cosmic Hockey puck" from Andromeda. Which is much eviler than the Tower of Shogun



Aslo there is a third game the Shogun tower is used. A game called Im Zeichen des Kreuzes

Chaz wrote: Using a deck of cards misses the whole "it's fun to dump the cubes in the tower" bit. Like, sure you could also use an app to generate all the die rolls for Axis and Allies or something, but physically chucking buckets of dice is part of the appeal.

Also, the cube tower is cardboard with a plastic funnel and tray. China can't mess this one up with shoddy plastic!

People do use the Catan card deck instead of rolling and I think Fantasy Flight have sold quite a few copies of their dice app for X-Wing/Star Wars RPG.

The people buying this stuff should be institutionalized but there is a market.

Chaz wrote: I freaking love the cube tower. Fights are usually pretty rare in Wallenstein,...

Clearly you have never played in any of the F:AT PBEM games.

Was about to say the same thing, Doctor. Like many DoaMs, it's all about the group playing. Rivers run red when FAtties play.