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× Talk about Eurogames here.

Your favorite Eurogames

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10 Jan 2021 18:57 - 10 Jan 2021 19:09 #317914 by san il defanso
In my case I think it's not a particularly useful distinction, because the vast majority of people I play with don't have any sense of genre on that level. Of course I make the mental distinction, but it's telling that most of my games are not actually recent ones. (The newest one is six years old!) The distinction really isn't as impactful as it was way back when this site started as Fortress: Ameritrash.

Actually now that I think about it, I think the grouping of games by a geographic origin isn't really very useful anymore. There is still a lot of room to talk about genre, but I think it's kind of daft that anyone would consider, say, Power Grid and Argent to be the same genre. (Assuming you called them both Eurogames, which who even knows now?)

*edit* And yes, I get the irony of me saying this, and also making a distinction between German-style and Eurogames. As Emerson said, a foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds.
Last edit: 10 Jan 2021 19:09 by san il defanso.
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10 Jan 2021 19:46 - 10 Jan 2021 19:51 #317916 by Jexik
Replied by Jexik on topic Your favorite Eurogames
I'm not even sure if these classify as Euros, but in multiplayer games on the lower end of the interaction spectrum, I prefer games where I a) don't feel like I'm wasting other people's time and b) don't have to wait for other people, so I'm a big fan of drafting, blind bidding, and simultaneous action selection.

Race for the Galaxy
7 Wonders
Revolution!
(Okay, I admit calling this low interaction is a bit silly)
QE

Are among my favorites and all clip along at a nice pace. Similarly weighted worker placement games I kinda hate, so I'm glaring at you Lords of Waterdeep and Stone Age. If there's an interesting theme or something else going on I'll tolerate a worker placement game... like Dungeon Lords, Alchemists, or Brewcrafters.

But if Cyclades is a Euro, my favorite would be Nexus Ops. That has VPs, right?

Catan and Power Grid are way up for me too... in all games, but I agree that there's a break somewhere in that time period between these games and the other kinds of games. I consider the shared map and marketplaces here the kind of thing that make them less solo and spreadsheety than later titles.
Last edit: 10 Jan 2021 19:51 by Jexik.
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11 Jan 2021 00:32 #317925 by san il defanso
Oh, I forgot to add a lot of my favorite games that I don't really consider traditional Euros, but maybe are?

- Ra
- Tigris & Euphrates
- Modern Art
- Manila

Probably some others too.

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11 Jan 2021 11:46 #317932 by ubarose
Replied by ubarose on topic Your favorite Eurogames
I find the terms to be very useful, but the folks I play with know what they mean. It allows us to communicate a lot of information in very few words. So we can say stuff like, "What are you in the mood for? Something more Ameritrash-y or more Euro-y?" And "It's definitely Euro-y, but it's got enough AT drama that you might like it."
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11 Jan 2021 13:57 - 11 Jan 2021 16:26 #317937 by southernman
Replied by southernman on topic Your favorite Eurogames

ubarose wrote: I find the terms to be very useful, but the folks I play with know what they mean. It allows us to communicate a lot of information in very few words. So we can say stuff like, "What are you in the mood for? Something more Ameritrash-y or more Euro-y?" And "It's definitely Euro-y, but it's got enough AT drama that you might like it."


I will say that BGG labels AT games as Thematic and many people use that term and that is fair enough, it's just a word to differentiate different flavours of gaming - I'm quite happy to be described as favouring mainly any of the terms, AT or Trashy or Thematic, depending on the company.
Last edit: 11 Jan 2021 16:26 by southernman.

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11 Jan 2021 18:12 - 11 Jan 2021 18:33 #317944 by Josh Look
Replied by Josh Look on topic Your favorite Eurogames
I like area control games. I like deck building games. I don't typically care for economic games and I don't much care at all for set collection. Adventure games that try to aim for a RPG experience are my least liked type of game.

See, wasn't so hard, and you probably have a much better idea of what I actually like as opposed to terms too broad to communicate much of anything AND I don't feel like a child for liking one type of game and I don't have to get bent out of shape when someone decides to cop a toxic attitude for me liking another.
Last edit: 11 Jan 2021 18:33 by Josh Look.
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11 Jan 2021 18:28 #317945 by DukeofChutney
Genres are a frame of reference so we know what we are talking about rather than a sealed box you place things in. So if i say jazz everyone roughly knows what i am talking about.

linguistics aside.

Just bought Concordia, so ill see if thats any good.

Through the Ages is the resource management game I have played the most over the past decade, mostly online now. I still like it and want to play it, which is pretty rare for me. Usually i get bored of games after 10-30 games if it is good.

Brass - i slightly prefer the newer Birmingham version. Generally i prefer economic games which sell you to some extent on the idea that you are building a business or industry.

Planet Steam - stock market game with the right balance of stuff going on to mental effort required

I tend not to like point salad that much but despite writing a much maligned article on the old Fort on the Castles of Burgundy I think its ok.
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11 Jan 2021 18:37 - 11 Jan 2021 18:44 #317946 by Josh Look
Replied by Josh Look on topic Your favorite Eurogames

DukeofChutney wrote: I tend not to like point salad that much but despite writing a much maligned article on the old Fort on the Castles of Burgundy I think its ok.


It's crazy how out of control the current point salad situation is that stuff like Burgundy, Trajan and Terra Mystica now feel focused. Like, I can play them and say, "Yeah, this game is about something.

As for genres, nobody is saying get rid of genres. Genres are helpful. But Euros and especially AT are not genres, and one of those terms doesn't mean jackshit anymore. I know many were active participants in that shit, but it's over. New folks don't see things this way and many, myself included, do not care anymore.
Last edit: 11 Jan 2021 18:44 by Josh Look.

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11 Jan 2021 19:05 #317947 by ChristopherMD
Euro's were always too varied to be a good genre. Puerto Rico and Lost Cities are nothing alike and have no business being in the same genre. Ameritrash is also not a good genre. It was a style of games that wasn't popular on BGG.com from 2001-Kickstarter. But it's irrelevant now. If you don't believe me try explaining either of them to gamers who don't read hobby sites. They don't make sense.

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12 Jan 2021 07:16 - 12 Jan 2021 07:22 #317957 by southernman
Replied by southernman on topic Your favorite Eurogames

Josh Look wrote:

DukeofChutney wrote: I tend not to like point salad that much but despite writing a much maligned article on the old Fort on the Castles of Burgundy I think its ok.


It's crazy how out of control the current point salad situation is that stuff like Burgundy, Trajan and Terra Mystica now feel focused. Like, I can play them and say, "Yeah, this game is about something.

As for genres, nobody is saying get rid of genres. Genres are helpful. But Euros and especially AT are not genres, and one of those terms doesn't mean jackshit anymore. I know many were active participants in that shit, but it's over. New folks don't see things this way and many, myself included, do not care anymore.


Just because you say that it is not a genre (who actually defines what genres are ?) or that it means jack shit doesn't actually mean anything - apart from to you ... OK, Style could be a better word than genre, fair point. It sounds like you are the only one still a bit annoyed by Mr Barnes schism/coup/realignment/whatever 14 years ago :dry: :( .
People use words to classify stuff so it makes sense to other people, people have already posted that they use that word for simply that and not to cause shit or animosity. Heck, the site even splits game discussion into Euro, Ameritrash and Wargames here.
I think you're derailing a bit here - after all the thread is entitled "Your favourite Eurogames" :huh: .
Last edit: 12 Jan 2021 07:22 by southernman.
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12 Jan 2021 08:42 #317958 by san il defanso
I listed Five Tribes, which is about as point-salad as I can take. Everything in that game generates points, you just need to pick a couple of methods and optimize the heck out of them. I think it works because if you try to pick a little of everything you will probably lose. It's definitely a game about playing a game, kind of like Dominion. But it looks nice, and I enjoy it, I guess the heart wants what it wants.

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12 Jan 2021 09:41 #317961 by Sagrilarus
Replied by Sagrilarus on topic Your favorite Eurogames
Can we do "what is a wargame" next?

Seriously, it was a simple question. If you think a game is more or less a euro and you like it, mention it here. That way people can give a try. If you're not using the word as an epithet it's fine.
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12 Jan 2021 11:26 - 12 Jan 2021 11:45 #317964 by ubarose
Replied by ubarose on topic Your favorite Eurogames

southernman wrote:
Just because you say that it is not a genre (who actually defines what genres are ?) ... OK, Style could be a better word than genre, fair point.


I agree. It isn't worth debating what is "genre." I'll leave that to people with more letters after their names. Heck, academics have been arguing as to whether or not "Media" is one of the main genres of literature for decades. But I think that we could all agree that Euro and Ameritrash are, at the very least, styles.

We use labels to communicate ideas. Sometimes broad ideas. Sometimes very specific ideas. As vague as the terms Euro and Ameritrash are, they are useful, when communicating or soliciting information about a game with people who are familiar with the terms. When someone asks what are your favorite Euro games, we may prevaricate over including Merchant of Venus or not, but we do know that Talisman, Warhammer40k, The Gothic Game, King of Tokyo, Crokinole, and Command & Colors Ancients isn't what they meant.
Last edit: 12 Jan 2021 11:45 by ubarose.
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12 Jan 2021 12:55 - 12 Jan 2021 12:57 #317966 by Erik Twice
Replied by Erik Twice on topic Your favorite Eurogames
I recently wrote an article on "What's an eurogame?". I argue that it's an artistic movement like, say, romanticism. Personally, I do not think the movement has much weight today and the "baroque euros" that dominate now are genre work.

What is a eurogame?


Either way, my favourite eurogames as I see them are:

Steam: Rails to Riches, Brass Birmingham, Liberté
Terraforming Mars
Chicago Express and friends
Intrigue
Dominion
Last edit: 12 Jan 2021 12:57 by Erik Twice.
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12 Jan 2021 13:10 - 12 Jan 2021 13:13 #317967 by ubarose
Replied by ubarose on topic Your favorite Eurogames

Erik Twice wrote: I argue that it's an artistic movement like, say, romanticism.


I like that. I would say I very much enjoy Neo-Ameritrash and German Revival. However I find Post-Euro rather drab and procedural. ;)
Last edit: 12 Jan 2021 13:13 by ubarose.
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