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GW double profits in a year

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01 Aug 2018 05:03 #278873 by Matt Thrower
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-45019803?SThisFB

Makes you wonder how much the markup on each figure is. Also how much higher that profit could have been if they actually had a decent PR department.
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01 Aug 2018 06:47 #278874 by drewcula
Well, they got me going back to the till for some Blood Bowl.
I'll be visiting Barnes and Noble next month to pick up a copy of Blitz Bowl.

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01 Aug 2018 09:32 #278881 by Sevej
Replied by Sevej on topic GW double profits in a year
But the revenue increase is not as extreme. That could mean they are being more efficient. Forge World has a lot of its stuff cut off.
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01 Aug 2018 09:47 #278882 by Michael Barnes
It certainly doesn’t hurt that they have releases
must-have product after must-have product week after week after for like 2 years.

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01 Aug 2018 10:39 #278885 by Gary Sax
I do appreciate a "soaring profits!" story that is accompanying a stream of good, new products rather than something more sinister.
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01 Aug 2018 11:58 #278889 by Michael Barnes
Nothing sinister here. No creative bookkeeping, spurious business plans, or anything like that. GW changed leadership and righted the course. It’s been in vogue for years to bash them, and in some cases it was a week deserved bad reputation. But in the past few years, starting with Betrayal at Calth, GW has been constantly knocking it out of the park with just a couple of missteps. Along the way, they’ve earned a lot of goodwill, engaging with and listening to their customers and adopting a looser approach to its marketing. Things like the comic videos, making Duncan Rhodes the “face” of the hobby part of it, and putting product back on the shelves of online retailers have all been very smart moves. But it does come back to the quality of the products. Take stock:

- 2 excellent Horus Heresy board games that were also great value for HH players
- 2 Warhammer Quest titles, relaunching a popular and missed line
- excellent board games like Deathwatch Overkill and Execution Force
- The return of Blood Bowl and Necromunda
- Shadespire, and before it Gorechosen
- 2 completely new editions of its flagship games, 8th and 2nd, along with support material such as codices, data cards, dice, battletomes, etc.
- New high quality scenery kits like the Azyrite Ruins, Sector Imperialis, and Sector Mechanicus
- the Malign Sorcery add on for AOS that innovates magic use
- Several -completely new model ranges- for both main line games including Primaris SMs, Death Guard, Nighthaunts, Deepkin, Overlords, Genestealer Cults in addition to add ons for other existing factions, not to mention al new models for the specialist titles
- Several large scale centerpiece models like Mortarion, Magnus, Lord of Change, Black Coach, etc.
- Several reissues of popular kits including “made to order” recasts
- Kill Team, which I think is going to have a major impact on 40k
- A revitalized White Dwarf including a return to print magazines

It just goes on and on. The whiffs have been few- I love Lost Patrol, but it didn’t really find an audience and neither did Gangs of Commorragh or the somewhat mismarketed flyer game they tried. Shadow War: Armageddon foundered because it was a stopgap before a full Necromunda reissue and it’s limited release killed it on release.

The future is bright. We’ve got Adeptus Titanicus coming back next month and maybe...just maybe...Epic will come back in some form. Shadespire will see new factions and it just got a new board and leader cards. Necromunda is still supported and the Cawdor models coming next week look incredible. Two new board games, Blitz and the SMS versus Necron thing are coming. The last three 8th edition books are incoming with rumors of a big Ork refresh. Battlefleet Gothic and Gorkamorka have been whispered about. An AOS CCG is coming out this month.

There has never been a better time to be into GW- yes, including the 80s and 90s. They are absolutely at their peak right now, and the financials bear this out.

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01 Aug 2018 12:12 #278892 by Matt Thrower

Michael Barnes wrote: Nothing sinister here. No creative bookkeeping, spurious business plans, or anything like that. GW changed leadership and righted the course. It’s been in vogue for years to bash them, and in some cases it was a week deserved bad reputation.


There is one sinister aspect, which is the price and associated marketing. I know the models are high quality, but the premium markup GW slaps on them is absurd.

This is partly why I'm happy sticking to the boxed product: they're the opposite, often cracking value, because they're intended to bring you into a system and encourage you to make up for the losses with extra purchases. A bit like how video game consoles are sold at a loss. But that's a mildly sharp bit of marketing practice.

I mean, make some comparisons. Silver Tower is about twice the price of Shadespire. Yet it's got five times the models in it. Why? Because it's also an introduction to Age of Sigmar, and because you can buy sets of Daemons to expand the game. You can pursue a similar logic with Kill Team.

Incidentally, this is exactly why I'm steering clear of Kill Team for the time being. It's like passing on your first line of cocaine.

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01 Aug 2018 12:18 #278893 by southernman
Very strange that it coincides with Mr Barnes making the top echelon of US GW prophets .... hmmmmm .... very interesting.
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01 Aug 2018 13:06 - 01 Aug 2018 13:09 #278896 by Michael Barnes
Even with the pricing, it’s nothing sinister. They charge a premium for a premium product. Their customers agree to pay that premium. They experience record profit and growth regardless of the fact that their markup is so high. That’s just good business. No one in their right mind would say “hang on guys, we really shouldn’t be charging $140 for a Great Unclean One, that is just ridiculous” when they are readily selling them to willing customers.

Their prices are high, but it’s not extortion. You don’t have to buy a $140 model of a blobby Janna the Hutt imposter. You don’t even have to do that to play Nurgle. You can can choose to just play with the loss leader box set stuff, which is usually a huge value. The box sets are always the best option- Start Collecting, the holiday Battleforces, the big flagship sets.

Sure they are intended to lead you into further purchases...but even then it’s up to the consumer to decide if the price is worth paying, and if they do...then GW is doing the right thing. If they don’t, then GW needs to re-evaluate its business mode. But the latter doesn’t seem to be the case.
Last edit: 01 Aug 2018 13:09 by Michael Barnes.

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01 Aug 2018 13:18 #278897 by Sagrilarus

Sevej wrote: But the revenue increase is not as extreme. That could mean they are being more efficient. Forge World has a lot of its stuff cut off.


Revenue is what indicates health. You can play some pretty nifty tricks to increase your profit (or kill it), revenue is a little harder to cheat. But even it can be a little sloppy. My old company used to have a joke -- "December 45th". They would keep the prior year's books open if something big was due to come in.

If GW is stringing together three or four quarters like this that's a sign that they have a tailwind. Let's see what the Fall brings.

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01 Aug 2018 13:58 #278901 by SuperflyPete

Michael Barnes wrote: It certainly doesn’t hurt that they have releases
must-have product after must-have product week after week after for like 2 years.


I’m of the mind that not only have you personally doubled their profits, based on consumption, but also, Barnes (of Barnes and Noble) has to be you. :D

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01 Aug 2018 15:26 #278908 by dysjunct

SuperflyTNT wrote:

Michael Barnes wrote: It certainly doesn’t hurt that they have releases
must-have product after must-have product week after week after for like 2 years.


I’m of the mind that not only have you personally doubled their profits, based on consumption, but also, Barnes (of Barnes and Noble) has to be you. :D


Hah, B&N is run by Italian mobsters, or at least Italian-Americans who are doing a very credible Mafioso impression.

Barnes' banning would have been way more entertaining if the BGG masses thought Barnes was in the mob.

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01 Aug 2018 15:41 #278910 by Matt Thrower

Michael Barnes wrote: Even with the pricing, it’s nothing sinister.


That's arguable when your target market is mostly kids who don't know any better, and parents who don't know any better either.

I don't know how it is now, but back when I played a ton of WFB, GW was famous for power creep. New armies tended to be significantly better than older ones, and the older ones got new units that were needed in order to stay even vaguely competitive. Maybe that's change, but it certainly caused a lot of anger when it happened.

Sure players can vote with their wallets and play something else but, love it or hate it, GW has a community and that's big value in itself. It's easy to find people to play against if you play GW. Much harder if you play Hordes of the Things or Frostgrave or whatever else. So players kept playing to stay a part of their community and kept on grumbling, with good reason IMO.

But this is an old debate in the gray area between what's "fair" and what's "reasonable" so probably best left there.

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01 Aug 2018 20:19 #278948 by Sevej
Replied by Sevej on topic GW double profits in a year

MattDP wrote: There is one sinister aspect, which is the price and associated marketing. I know the models are high quality, but the premium markup GW slaps on them is absurd.


If they are absurd, how come there's no competitor of just about the same quality and lower price? Really, I spent, like, years looking for comparable alternative. Good looking models with customization that have character and unique silhouette. Nope. If they are cheaper, then they are going to suck. If they're close to GW quality, then they will be expensive because they are metal & resin.

On top of that, GW still have to manage their chain of stores.

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02 Aug 2018 04:12 - 02 Aug 2018 04:13 #278981 by Matt Thrower

Sevej wrote: If they are absurd, how come there's no competitor of just about the same quality and lower price?


Wyrd Miniatures do some great stuff for Malifaux and Dreamforge, which isn't cheap but it's still cheaper than GW.

Corvus Belli's line for Infinity is arguably even better and it's even cheaper.

Google "parabellum conquest" and look at the pictures. Although to be fair it's coming soon and there's no price yet.

Perry miniatures are excellent, although that's not entirely like with like because they're historical.

In compiling this list I do notice one thing that stands out about GW, and that's the customisation. Most of the above don't come as kits, but as complete sculpts. Selling things in kits gives the sculptor more freedom with poses and the player more freedom with loadout and conversions.

Does that explain the price premium? Maybe: splitting a sculpt into easily assembled parts must be an engineering challenge. Is it worth it? That's for the player to decide.
Last edit: 02 Aug 2018 04:13 by Matt Thrower.

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