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Catch-up mechanisms are a band-aid: CHANGE MY MIND

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28 Sep 2018 17:31 #282449 by Erik Twice
Here's something I was talking about online recently that I think would be interesting to discuss. Put simply:

No well-designed game needs a catch-up mechanism. The only reason a game might need one is because it's flawed in the first place. They are, at best, the lesser evil between a game that is broken and one which has problems

For example, the only reason Power Grid "needs" a catch-up mechanism is that it snowballs. If it didn't snowball (Like Steam), it wouldn't need such a mechanism.


Here's a practical example. Picture three hypotehthical versions of Power Grid.

The first is Power Grid without a catch-up mechanism. This is a terrible game because all that matters is snowballing to victory.

The second is Power Grid as published. The catch-up mechanism has a ton of flaws and isn't a great mechanic in and on itself, but it's better than snowballing, hence its inclusion.

The third is a hypothethical Power Grid with a reworked economy that did not snowball. This version wouldn't have the big flaw of the first version and, hence, would not need the lesser evil that is the catch-up mechanism. This version is better than the other two.

Discuss or brutally hit the downvote button to disagree.
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28 Sep 2018 17:39 #282450 by Shellhead
Offhand, I can't think of any ameritrash games that use a catch-up mechanism. It would be anti-thematic, plus ameritrash games tend to value the experience of directly crushing an opponent, and sometimes even eliminating them from the game.

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28 Sep 2018 17:45 #282451 by bendgar
Is this in response to the possible upcoming Ketchup expansion for Food Chain Magnate?

That news sure surprised me.
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28 Sep 2018 18:05 #282452 by jeb
NEXUS OPS has a catch-up mechanism—loser of a battle (if defending) gets a card that provides a bonus in (later) combat.
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28 Sep 2018 19:16 #282454 by ratpfink
Downvote. Power Grid doesn't have a catch up mechanism. Power Grid has ebbs and flows that, if you are skilled at taking advantage of the timing, help you to succeed in winning the game. Power Grid doesn't "snowball", whatever that means. Let's say I have the most cities and have 3 more than the player with the least cities and it's mid to late game. So in powering I make what, 10 or 20 bucks more. For that "snowball" effect benefit of an extra 20 bucks I pay way more to power my plants, I pay way more to build cities, I take on more risk of getting blocked off from cities, I take on some risk of not having available resources to power plants and I probably have shittier choices when it comes to buying plants because I have to buy first. So I better be way farther ahead than 3 cities to make it worthwhile to sit in "first place" for very long.

Yes, sometimes the plants come out in such a way that you can win by being a front runner. I've found that hardly ever happens and is usually a losing strategy.

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28 Sep 2018 19:27 #282455 by SaMoKo
Steam has a catch up mechanism in Wallace evening out the bidding rewards compared to Age of Steam :)

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28 Sep 2018 19:51 #282457 by Sevej
No statement is always true. It all depends on how it's designed.
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28 Sep 2018 20:01 #282458 by Colorcrayons

jeb wrote: NEXUS OPS has a catch-up mechanism—loser of a battle (if defending) gets a card that provides a bonus in (later) combat.


In general, I hate catch up.

But in Nexus Ops' case, this is an example of when it is done flawlessly and admirably.
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28 Sep 2018 20:13 #282459 by hotseatgames
Giving a loser of an encounter a bonus is generally a good idea. Nexus Ops has been discussed. In Rising Sun, the victor has to give the money he devoted to the fight to the loser. This is also nice.

Nobody likes it when the outcome is assured; no one likes playing a game they think they have lost by turn 2. Keeping people "in the game" is commendable, but absolutely I agree that there are good ways and bad ways to do this.

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28 Sep 2018 20:28 #282460 by ChristopherMD
A lot of great games have a catch-up mechanism. It's called "dice."
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28 Sep 2018 21:15 #282463 by SuperflyPete
I disagree that games need a catch-up mechanism. It makes the shittiest player equal to the best in large part. It’s a European design concept where “everyone should have a chance to win.” While egalitarian, it makes skill less important.

If you build a good economy, it WILL snowball. It SHOULD. It rewards good play.

The trick is to design the game in such a way that everyone has EQUAL OPPORTUNITIES, not EQUAL OUTCOME.
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28 Sep 2018 22:34 - 28 Sep 2018 22:37 #282466 by Josh Look
I don’t think catch up mechanics are stupid at all, plenty of games I love have them. What we should be directing our ire towards are games that are artificially close. Games that reward points for doing anything short of sitting there are especially terrible. Like Eclipse.
Last edit: 28 Sep 2018 22:37 by Josh Look.
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29 Sep 2018 09:20 #282470 by Black Barney
I do think Power Grid has a catch up mechanism, one that you can actually abuse and use to your advantage. I like it.

Does Caylus have a catch up mechanism? I can’t remember. I recall how that game snowballs once you start to get ahead.

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29 Sep 2018 13:51 #282485 by SebastianBludd
I like the catch-up mechanism in Cthulhu Wars: the player with the least power gets to go up to half of the highest power at the table if they would normally have less than that.

It balances the fact that not only is this game a knife fight in a phone booth (except in this game one faction has a chainsaw, one has a 20 lb. sledgehammer, etc.), but it also mitigates a bad turn where a player might get clobbered because they're starting to pull away, or they just had bad luck.

And it really doesn't take anything away from the game. The half power rule won't launch you back into contention, you'll still have to play well and pick your moments if you hope to recover.

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30 Sep 2018 21:01 #282508 by Sagrilarus
Catch-up is the result of removing luck from games. Without luck there's no way to exchange higher risk for higher reward, and your position can become hopeless well before the end of the game. To mitigate this designers create ways to prevent that hopeless position from occurring.

There are graceful ways to do it. Settlers gives trailing players a boost because people prefer to trade with the guy that isn't a threat. There's enough interplayer binding to allow that to occur, and it's natural and understandable to all players. But, most "modern" games don't use that short of binding and don't offer high risk plays, so what remains is to give the last place player a free card every turn, or give them first crack at resources at a lower price, etc. Often it's pretty hokey.

In Power Grid the timing of that final push at the finish is crucial. Often the player powering the third most cities is in the lead, and makes their run to end the game at just the right moment. It works, but it's weird.
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