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× Talk about whatever you like related to games that doesn't fit anywhere else.

Name That Theme

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02 Oct 2018 10:22 #282574 by Shellhead
Name That Theme was created by Shellhead
Barnes has repeatedly asserted that setting is not theme, even for boardgames, and maybe he is right. Here is a link to a long list of literary and cinematic themes:

literarydevices.net/a-huge-list-of-common-themes/

Pick some of your favorite games and assign them themes from the list.

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02 Oct 2018 11:09 #282575 by BaronDonut
Replied by BaronDonut on topic Name That Theme
Lol, this list is amazing. "Bible" is an incredible movie theme, and thank god for angels poetry and trees poetry.

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02 Oct 2018 12:29 #282582 by Shellhead
Replied by Shellhead on topic Name That Theme
I think that the theme of most euros might be "the necessity of work."
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02 Oct 2018 13:17 #282590 by the_jake_1973
Replied by the_jake_1973 on topic Name That Theme
Dungeonquest: Death - Inevitable or tragic
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02 Oct 2018 15:40 - 02 Oct 2018 15:43 #282600 by Disgustipater
Replied by Disgustipater on topic Name That Theme

Shellhead wrote: I think that the theme of most euros might be "the necessity of work."


I may be alone in this, but I don’t understand why “theme” even matters in a board game. I don’t really care what the designer is trying to say with their game. I just want to know if it is fun.

Edit - Sorry, I don’t mean to derail your thread.
Last edit: 02 Oct 2018 15:43 by Disgustipater.

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02 Oct 2018 16:17 #282603 by Shellhead
Replied by Shellhead on topic Name That Theme

Disgustipater wrote:

Shellhead wrote: I think that the theme of most euros might be "the necessity of work."


I may be alone in this, but I don’t understand why “theme” even matters in a board game. I don’t really care what the designer is trying to say with their game. I just want to know if it is fun.

Edit - Sorry, I don’t mean to derail your thread.


I suspect that theme doesn't really matter in most games, but setting does matter, especially when the game is based on well-known IP. Like with the classic Dune boardgame... maybe the theme is man vs. man or man vs. nature or betrayal or something like that. But the real draw for many players is that the game does a good job of capturing the feel of these different factions and the harsh environment where they come into conflict.
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02 Oct 2018 16:28 - 02 Oct 2018 16:32 #282605 by charlest
Replied by charlest on topic Name That Theme

Disgustipater wrote:

Shellhead wrote: I think that the theme of most euros might be "the necessity of work."


I may be alone in this, but I don’t understand why “theme” even matters in a board game. I don’t really care what the designer is trying to say with their game. I just want to know if it is fun.

Edit - Sorry, I don’t mean to derail your thread.


Why would it not matter in a board game but it would matter in a novel, film, or piece of art?

I think examining and understanding the central focus of a game is just as meaningful. It can provide a deeper appreciation to the interlocking systems and the experience as a whole. It allows us to challenge our own ideologies, interact with varied and intelligent opinions, and discuss meaningful points of view.
Last edit: 02 Oct 2018 16:32 by charlest.
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02 Oct 2018 16:50 #282609 by Shellhead
Replied by Shellhead on topic Name That Theme

charlest wrote:

Disgustipater wrote:

Shellhead wrote: I think that the theme of most euros might be "the necessity of work."


I may be alone in this, but I don’t understand why “theme” even matters in a board game. I don’t really care what the designer is trying to say with their game. I just want to know if it is fun.

Edit - Sorry, I don’t mean to derail your thread.


Why would it not matter in a board game but it would matter in a novel, film, or piece of art?

I think examining and understanding the central focus of a game is just as meaningful. It can provide a deeper appreciation to the interlocking systems and the experience as a whole. It allows us to challenge our own ideologies, interact with varied and intelligent opinions, and discuss meaningful points of view.


Your statement makes sense to me. But if it turns out that lots of games share certain basic themes, then maybe theme isn't a useful way to distinguish games from one another. That's why I'm interested in seeing how people here identify the themes in their favorite games.

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02 Oct 2018 18:45 #282614 by Erik Twice
Replied by Erik Twice on topic Name That Theme
Something interesting about analyzing the themes of boardgames is that they are very multifaceted because each play is different. For example, from your list there are a bunch of potential themes in The Republic of Rome:

Manipulation
Power and corruption
Power of words
Pride and downfall
Quest for power
Role of Religion – virtue or hypocrisy
Self-preservation
Temptation and destruction
Totalitarianism
Vulnerability of the strong
War – glory, necessity, pain, tragedy
Will to survive

Shellhead wrote: I suspect that theme doesn't really matter in most games, but setting does matter, especially when the game is based on well-known IP. Like with the classic Dune boardgame... maybe the theme is man vs. man or man vs. nature or betrayal or something like that. But the real draw for many players is that the game does a good job of capturing the feel of these different factions and the harsh environment where they come into conflict.

I think that the fact that many people may ignore the deeper ideas or themes found in games or in books or movies do not make them unimportant.
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02 Oct 2018 19:53 - 02 Oct 2018 20:02 #282616 by Colorcrayons
Replied by Colorcrayons on topic Name That Theme

Erik Twice wrote: I think that the fact that many people may ignore the deeper ideas or themes found in games or in books or movies do not make them unimportant.


I emphatically agree.

Here are two examples of some fairly deep thematic ideas that go largely, if not entirely, unnoticed by those who play them.

Escape from Atlantis 1997 Waddingtons edition
There is a prevailing theory that an island in the Aegean Cyclades islands called Thera (now known as the popular resort island, Santorini) is the actual fabled island of Atlantis. The settlement of Akrotiri that had been sealed by the ash of the volcanic explosion that Pliny the Elder had witnessed coming from Atlantis, seems to at least confirm in a cursory way that the theory has merit.

When we look at this edition of the game, Hasbro/Waddingtons were aware of these events enough to model the incredibly overproduced island pieces with this in mind. Many of the pieces virtually replicate what we see now dotting the rocky cliffs of Santorini.

Those aware of this archaeological history and discoveries can appreciate this. I did, and decided to reinforce this by making cards that allowed me to play the game as Survive too, instead of the simpler play of Atlantis through images and names on the CARDS and a new RULEBOOK .

Aton Queen Games
If you have an interest in the 18th dynasty of Egypt, usually referred to as the Amarna Period, you can see the details flourish in this design. The duel between polytheism and monotheism plays out here rather well. Is that intentional by the designer, or am I projecting my knowledge of this onto the game? Maybe a bit of both, I suppose. Even if it is all my own projection, the game accommodates that allowing for an incredible degree of suspension of disbelief for what is largely an abstract game.
Last edit: 02 Oct 2018 20:02 by Colorcrayons. Reason: I hit submit way too early
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02 Oct 2018 23:38 #282627 by Disgustipater
Replied by Disgustipater on topic Name That Theme

charlest wrote: Why would it not matter in a board game but it would matter in a novel, film, or piece of art?


Fair point, which I now realize is just how I consume media. In general, I find the themes of the content I'm interacting with to be the least important aspect of the experience. Clearly a lot of media is created explicitly to promote an idea. I generally just don't really care much about that. I'm just uncultured swine.
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03 Oct 2018 01:56 #282630 by Frohike
Replied by Frohike on topic Name That Theme
To me, theme at a certain level of definition devolves into an oddly monadic/platonic set of concepts that teachers like to assign to their high school students to map onto their reading material. When I think about the overall import of a game, what it's reaching for, the stories that are teased out of the intersection of players and the game's framework... it's less about the "themes" per se so much as the ways in which a game constantly slips between different registers of meaning, under the pull of those themes, perhaps, but also other dynamics that enrich and complicate them: our expectations/hype/fluency/belief surrounding genre, the "experience" of the game which itself shifts with different players and varying intersections with our own lives and the role that we assign to games within them, and this grasping, perpetually inadequate language that we throw at the entire thing to share it, evaluate it, taxonomize the aspects that we can (including themes). I personally steer away from rarefying "themes" per se out of most of the texts that I encounter, including board games, because it often feels like an artificial exercise in defining a context that is constantly exceeded by its own subject.
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03 Oct 2018 09:09 #282637 by Jackwraith
Replied by Jackwraith on topic Name That Theme
I guess some of the argument is based on immersion in the subject matter, right? No one is particularly interested in being immersed in the details of being a farmer in the 17th century when they play Agricola. The emphasis is totally on the mechanics. Similarly, no one is expecting to feel like a city manager in Babylon when they play Tigris and Euphrates. The theme is pasted on, as it is with most Knizia designs. It's just a vehicle that encourages people to identify the cool mechanics as "monuments", rather than "piece 13s", as well as giving marketing something to present, other than "Cool Mechanics Game."

But then we look at something like Twilight Imperium, where a lot of effort has been put into taking Euro-type mechanics (Puerto Rico) and attaching them to a game that is directly intended to immerse you in the story of the (re)creation of a galactic empire. It is possible to play TI4 as simply an exercise in mechanics, but a lot of it is driven by story elements (the Sardakk play this way because they're voracious predators, while the Xxcha play this way because they're mediators and diplomats) that are basically inescapable.

Taking it a step further: Descent is a game where theme is intended to immerse you not just in the story as presented, but as an attempt to codify a different type of game. When you play Descent, you're supposed to feel like an elven geomancer (race and class), heading off to adventure. But the overarching thematic elements of Descent are also supposed to make you feel like you're playing an RPG; not just a board game. Your character gets new abilities from his class as you progress, in addition to any fancy loot you might discover that's appropriate for that class. The decisions that you make during an extended adventure impact how it progresses. Those are all story element that it's basically impossible to participate in without engaging the theme. You can't play an RPG without appreciating the story elements of what you're doing and I'd argue that Descent is set up to be enjoyed (and immersed in) the same way.

I don't mean to present it as a requirement. People like what they like and play how they want to play. I knew many 40K players who didn't really care that they were playing the Blood Angels and the rich history and lore that was behind that chapter. They just knew that they did the most damage on the table and, thus, won a lot of games; many of them on autopilot, which meant that not only did they not have to engage the theme on a personal level (spending time painting, coming up with a history for their own chapter, naming units, etc.), but they really didn't have to know anything other than basic numbers: move, damage, save.

But I'd argue that those kinds of games are even better when the theme is engaged. To me, it gives a story to tell about the game other than "I made all my saves" or "I had the most Action cards in TI4." I remember telling an RPG-only friend about Talisman and recounting epic wins in the game to him and he looked at me like I was nuts: "I don't know how you can get those kinds of stories out of a board game." But I did and I still remember them today (and they convinced him to play and he loved it.) Similarly, the 40K thing I described above is still with me. My avatar on this site and many others is a relic of the Space Marine chapter that was my last created army, since I spent the time to make a detailed history, naming units, naming officers, creating my paint scheme, etc. Even though the Dark Eldar were my favorite faction, mechanics-wise, the army that has stuck with me is the Ryujin Legion and I haven't played in a decade.
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03 Oct 2018 10:11 #282639 by hotseatgames
Replied by hotseatgames on topic Name That Theme
I'm much more interested in setting than theme, but it is also dependent on the "weight" of the game.

For example, Doom has an underlying theme of corporate greed at all costs. But I don't give a shit. To me, Doom is stomping on demons' heads and blasting fools with a shotgun.

In general, I look to books or films if I want something deep. I like my games to be about fucking shit up.
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03 Oct 2018 11:47 #282649 by Colorcrayons
Replied by Colorcrayons on topic Name That Theme

hotseatgames wrote: I like my games to be about fucking shit up.


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