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Let's Talk - Team Games

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08 Nov 2018 17:36 #285701 by ChristopherMD
Taking the queue from another thread. Let's talk about team/partnership games. Someone mentioned the Academy Games "Birth of" series which I haven't played yet but do own 1775 for future playing. War of the Ring can technically be another one. Captain Sonar certainly fits here.

I'm not sure I count 1vsAll games as the same as Team games. Just doesn't feel right since 1 person is not a team. Also not sure I'd count games with temporary alliances.

Do you like board gaming on a team? What games do you think are best for this?
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08 Nov 2018 17:59 #285705 by Black Barney
i hate it. The most experienced player just tells the other what to do.

The only time it actually felt FUN was playing Battlelore with two sets. You put the maps beside each other, divide into teams of 3 and it's fun trying to see 3 commanders on each side agree or ignore each other. When you see cohesion evaporating, then you know which area to attack best.

War of the Ring's team rules always sounded awful to me cuz the system is SO fragile to bad moves. Everyone would fight over who gets to do what with the die rolls and whichever area needs the focus most is the only player that will get to play. No thanks.

When I used to play Scotland Yard I liked watching people gang up on me as Mr. X. Trying to work together, that was cool. One of the Zombie games had that too... Last Night on Earth I think

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08 Nov 2018 18:06 #285706 by hotseatgames
Guards of Atlantis is excellent. You can’t be openly communicative with your teammates because the other team will hear you, so you tend to just do what you think is best. Over the course of things, you get into a good rhythm and function like a team.
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08 Nov 2018 20:24 #285721 by Not Sure
Replied by Not Sure on topic Let's Talk - Team Games

Black Barney wrote: i hate it. The most experienced player just tells the other what to do.


This is what I said in the co-op thread, but it's very applicable to competitive team games as well:

me wrote: I would love to find a really great team game that doesn't easily fall down with the coaching problem. I like the feel of succeeding (or even failing) with a team, but I hate being micro-managed. Worse yet, I can sometimes slip into that micro-management mode myself, and wind up being the asshole at the table. I try hard, but it's a character flaw.

That's why I want a coaching-resistant game, where each player is best aware of their own situation and most able to react, without an Overmind telling them what the best course is. Actually, maybe I don't want that, because it sounds like why Shellhead won't play spreadsheet games after being an accountant all day. Too real.

san's not wrong about dice throwing uncertainty in the mix, but even then it's easy to say "well, there's about a 70% chance of it going wrong, so I think you should" and worst case followed by "I told you so". Low-luck (or high information) games are definitely the easiest to overcoach in.

I think the best examples I have of this limited information is in BSG's very arbitrary "no table-talk about your cards" rules, or something like the "megagames" that Jur used to play on and report about, where different operational theaters (on the same side) were in different rooms. Making the best choice in front of you, while not being privy to all the information about the whole state of the game. And yet, making a cohesive and satisfying game out of that...

That's the holy grail co-op to me.


Replace "co-op" in that last line with "team game". Whether it's everyone on one team or multiple teams slugging it out, the dynamic is the important part to me. Being able to replace "Well, this is clearly the best move for you" with "Everyone do the best you can with what you have, I don't know your problems".
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08 Nov 2018 20:41 #285722 by the_jake_1973
Memoir 44 has good team rules as I recall.
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08 Nov 2018 21:32 - 08 Nov 2018 23:31 #285724 by Sagrilarus
Replied by Sagrilarus on topic Let's Talk - Team Games
Regarding coaching -- stop playing with dicks. A coach should teach, not dictate. That isn't a problem with team games, it's a problem with dicks. Save that discussion for the "Let's Talk - Dicks" thread.

Wings of Glory and its cousins are excellent team games, and the WWII version even more so because you have to be heads down concentrating, but still keep an eye on your wingman. You can coach, but jeeze,it's about execution and each flyer is on their own more or less.

I love team games and I wish there was more of them. Quartermaster General works.
Last edit: 08 Nov 2018 23:31 by Sagrilarus.
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08 Nov 2018 22:54 #285728 by san il defanso
My favorite team game is Duel of Ages II, although in that case you really need someone there who can set the tone for the session. I spent a long time trying to explain the game as some kind of colossal goof, when it really does have a lot of tactical grit that is under a candy coating. The last time I taught it I think I finally nailed it down.
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09 Nov 2018 06:01 - 09 Nov 2018 06:04 #285733 by mezike
Replied by mezike on topic Let's Talk - Team Games
I really enjoy team games with hidden information where you are trying to work out who is on your team at the same time as progressing toward your team goal. That mainly covers games that are better with a big group of people I guess, Tempel Des Shreckens is a favourite for us as is Good Cop, Bad Cop. Werewolf probably falls under that category too although there are lone wolf players, no pun intended, thrown into the mix. Codenames does a brilliant job of putting people into teams as each team needs to co-operate and work together, and in a way it also has an overlord element with one player setting stuff out for a team. Captain Sonar I've only played a couple of times, it's fun but ended up going down to whoever was the weakest link so the general enthusiasm for it faded away as we didn't feel like we were leveraging the best of being a team.

Would temporary allegiances count as having the same feel as team play? Game of Thrones, Diplomacy, etc. edit: I am a doofus and should have read the OP more thoroughly

I'm not a fan of overlord games because quite frankly I don't want to sit through lengthy periods of listening to three other people expertly pick over every ramification and possibility in play before sitting by and watching as everything I achieved on my turn is slowly dismantled. I think the only time it works is in deduction games, Fury of Dracula and Scotland Yard being the best of the bunch.
Last edit: 09 Nov 2018 06:04 by mezike.
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09 Nov 2018 08:34 - 09 Nov 2018 08:40 #285742 by Jexik
Replied by Jexik on topic Let's Talk - Team Games
In addition to Captain Sonar and Codenames, I think Resistance [Avalon] fits the bill too and is one of my favorites in that genre.

Although I haven't played Wings of War, X-Wing works pretty well where you just divide up the fleet a bit. In a similar vein, Heroscape and Summoner Wars both had team rules built-in, even though they ended up being pretty uncommon ways to play, especially in tournaments. I like 2v2 in them better than multiplayer M:tG. Back when Summoner Wars only had 4 factions, I used to play a team game nearly every morning with some kids at work. The turn order and way the board wrapped around (like Defender or a cylindrical board) was pretty clever. It did a good job of not making it feel like two separate 1v1 games despite the way it starts. Nexus Ops has a 2v2 variant that works pretty well too.

So I guess a general rule would be that conflict heavy games where you can split the forces are a fine source to look for solid team games. I could see house-ruling something like Small World if you alternate the seating for the teams.

Going back, there are tons of traditional card games like Pinochle or Bridge that use teams. Maybe people could look to games like that when designing fun filler card games now? Anything German like that from the time when people made stuff like Sticheln?
Last edit: 09 Nov 2018 08:40 by Jexik.

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09 Nov 2018 08:37 #285743 by Vysetron
Replied by Vysetron on topic Let's Talk - Team Games
I love team games however I can get them. Public set teams, hidden teams, partnership games, whatever. It's such a great dynamic. A few that come to mind are Don't Mess With Cthulhu, Brew Crafters the card game, recently Exodus Paris Nouveau if you don't mind some initial plays to wrap your head around it.

Overlords and temporary alliances are both beloved for me but I agree that they aren't the same thing as teams.

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09 Nov 2018 08:52 #285746 by Jackwraith
Replied by Jackwraith on topic Let's Talk - Team Games
Just a casual mention (and crossing over from the Games Played thread) but Theseus: The Dark Orbit can be played as a team game. I know that most here regard it as a two-player because of the complexity and chaos that emerges with more players, but we love it as a three and are hopefully going to try a four-player tonight. If we stick with it for a second game instead of switching to something else, I might suggest giving the team play a try.
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09 Nov 2018 08:57 #285748 by hotseatgames
Theseus is awesome and I have never tried the team play. Let us know how it goes.

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09 Nov 2018 09:22 #285758 by charlest
Replied by charlest on topic Let's Talk - Team Games
I love team games. Adding another person to celebrate with can really improve the payout of dramatic moments.

Some good ones:

-Captain Sonar (tops in my opinion)
-Guards of Atlantis
-Gorechosen in 2v2 mode (quite good this way)
-Every social deduction game
-Space Cadets Dice Duel
-Cyclades: Titans at 6 players
-Fire in the Lake
-Pericles
-Fief
-Flick 'Em Up at 4 or more players
-Pit Crew

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09 Nov 2018 09:34 #285762 by SuperflyPete
There’s a lot of Team v Team games that rock. GW has Space Crusade, there’s Siege of the Citidel (kind of), Captain Sonar, Space Cadets Dice Duel, Rush n’ Crush, and many, many others.

The thing is that they all kind of do the same thing: beat each other up until one side dies. There’s not too many (if any) games where two teams are competing to solve tasks fastest (like pick up and deliver races) or to solve mysteries (A competitive Exit! or Android game) which is unfortunate. Imagine a game like Mage Knight or Runebound which had team specific goals.

They would either be the Alpha’s Delight or really cool, depending on the group.
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09 Nov 2018 09:49 #285767 by Sagrilarus
Replied by Sagrilarus on topic Let's Talk - Team Games

SuperflyTNT wrote: Rush n’ Crush


You know I was just thinking about mentioning Rush 'n Crush when I was reading down this thread and you beat me to it. I think the most interesting part of Rush 'n Crush from a team game perspective is that it's a team game where the publisher chickened out and didn't sell it as a team game! When you read the rules it makes no mention of playing in teams, but the game is much, much better when played in multiple teams of two. The components are all designed to run it as a team game and there's these relics in the rules where you can almost read the missing text, but they just don't come out and say it. It's really weird.

All that said, all you have to do to make it a team game is to play it that way. The natural breakout is to have one member of each team push for a win (i.e., cross the finish line first) while the other runs interference with weaponry. With a short track and multiple laps it makes perfect sense and makes for one hell of a good competition. The trouble-making car can go slow and lay mines, attack from in front with drop bombs and fire, and strafe at other cars from behind as they're lapped, so everything just flows from that.

This game didn't get deleted when I cleaned out my collection because the two or three times I've played it as a team game it's really gotten the group jumping and yelling. Really a good game in teams, kind of mediocre without them.

S.

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