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“Board Games Aren’t Just for Geeks Anymore”...

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20 Feb 2019 16:05 #292772 by Space Ghost

Sagrilarus wrote: Struck me as specifically aimed at hobby gamers that could enjoy some support that maybe they're not as goofy as they perceive themselves to be.


After thinking about it, I think this is pretty close to correct.

But, this is a bit naval-gazing and patting yourself on the back -- if people think you are goofy because you play board games, I guarantee they are going to think this video is goofy too. I'm always reminded of my stepdad -- construction worker, rural, etc. -- he drew the line at dominoes, checkers, carrom, and cards; everything else was goofy. Monopoly occupied the same space as HeroQuest -- which was something that kids play before they can be out working.

What is the shift you see, Uba? I find it interesting because I feel like I have basically become divorced from the world in the last few years, with the apex occurring when I turned 40 last year.
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20 Feb 2019 16:06 #292773 by Vysetron

ubarose wrote: I think there is some kind of shift going on in board game/geek culture and we are in transition. I think this video and our reactions to it reflect that.

Also, over the past several days I've noticed a flurry of discussion on "gatekeeping" in my social media feeds.


I wish there was a unified definition of what gatekeeping actually means. I've been driving against it for ages in our local area, running public events, bringing in people from a broad range of backgrounds, etc. Popular voices on board game twitter that claim to be inclusive and anti-gatekeeping seem to disagree with that approach if I'm to take their conduct at face value.

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20 Feb 2019 16:23 #292775 by ubarose
@Vtsetron

LOL. It's getting rather confusing. I'm now following a discussion that has veered into "Who's gatekeeping the gatekeepers" territory.
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20 Feb 2019 17:21 #292777 by birdman37

ubarose wrote: LOL.


Was that a actual LOL?
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20 Feb 2019 17:31 #292778 by ubarose
Yes, I actually laughed out loud while reading the FB discussion. My office mate can vouch for me.
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20 Feb 2019 19:17 #292784 by Erik Twice

Vysetron wrote: I wish there was a unified definition of what gatekeeping actually means.

But the term is kind of difuse on purporse, isn't it?

I mean, I think the reason the term has gotten popular is that it has enough truth to it that everyone can recognize it but is otherwise difuse enough that can apply to everything. Gatekeeping is a bit like "problematic" or "mansplaining" or "cultural appropiation". There are underlying problems to all of these terms, but when you scratch the surface you end up with many self-contradictory definitions held together by a label.

Because gaming has a real problem with elitism. It's a fairly nasty undercurrent in practically all gaming communities. But "gatekeeping" is clearly surpassing that problem to extend to, say, game design. Here's, from the top of my head, topics I've talked about that have been accussed of being "gatekeeping" on some level:

- Games with a single difficulty
- Games not including cheats
- Recommending people not to use a guide to solve puzzle games
- Saying that critics should be knowledgeable of their medium
- Giving the best prizes to the best players at a tournament
- Defending long games
- Criticizing popular games
- Praising skill-based games
- Not accepting abuse from other players

Really, if you show any kind of standard, someone's definition of "gatekeeping" will apply to you. Again, it's clear there are issues with elitism in gaming. Right now some EA suit is picking up a fight with the editor of a gaming website because the later "doesn't even know combos". It's dumb and you still see guys questioning women about their World of Warcraft achievements. But the discourse is very much going beyond those terms.

Being even more cynical, the definition of gatekeeping I see being pushed is increasingly in line with consumerism. Anything that makes games bigger, more popular, easier to consume is better while anything that could make games harder to consume, like being long, niche or difficult isn't.

Vysetron wrote: Popular voices on board game twitter that claim to be inclusive and anti-gatekeeping seem to disagree with that approach if I'm to take their conduct at face value.

Something I've noticed recently is that people on both sides of the issue tend to have the same view of potential game players. That is, that they are either incapable or weak and won't be able to play because they lack certain innate skills.

This is easily seen with talks about diversity. A large portion of these articles assume that this new "diverse" audience cannot play the same games other people are playing and that these games should change to accomodate them.

Personally, I find these views very patronizing. I believe gamers and potential gamers are much more capable than we give them credit for and if they aren't, it's not because they are incapable but because they are heavily misinformed and approach games in ways unlikely to lead to good play.
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20 Feb 2019 19:36 #292786 by Shellhead
Gatekeeping is used in a fairly specific sense with respect to comic book franchises. Loyal fans of the comic book characters resent fans who primarily know the characters due to modern superhero movies. And there is an additional level of gatekeeping aimed at women in general, because there are certain incel comic fans who think that only males should be reading comics. I suspect there is some gatekeeping in board game circles that is aimed at just women, but it seems like there is also a broader hostility to normal people who begin to show some interest in board games. I find gatekeepers to be pathetic losers.
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20 Feb 2019 19:54 - 24 Feb 2019 00:35 #292788 by Frohike
In a larger, maybe less culturally specific sense, I’ve usually understood it in terms of how genres or cultural media are delineated & maintained.

Formally, these are demarcated by the ever-shifting concept of “expectations” or generic conventions, how the text/object is expected to perform and how we’re expected to read it. These settle into basic "I know it when I see it" categories to define genre, but these allow for social & historical shifts to mutate those definitions.

Gatekeeping is a pre-emptive sentry to this process, an ossified “enforcement” of what is to be expected and a proscription of not just reading/playing/fluency, but also the social behavior and demonstration of aptitude that surrounds it.

One allows for evolution and growth, the other stagnates around “authority” and the ever doomed battle for exclusion, through insider jargon, “metas,” obsessive curation & taxonomy, etc. It chokes genre into submission & sometimes kills it.

The ability of the culture surrounding a medium to gradually explode in spite of the gatekeeping is often a testament to the strength and longevity of that genre/medium.
Last edit: 24 Feb 2019 00:35 by Frohike.

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20 Feb 2019 20:04 #292790 by SaMoKo
As far as I know, the Gatekeeper has been a primary nemesis in boardgames since Nightmare
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20 Feb 2019 22:05 - 20 Feb 2019 23:07 #292794 by ubarose
@Space Ghost

Bear with me. This isn't going to be linear. It's going to be more like a collage, because that is how my mind works.

So board gamers and geeks, were once just nerds. They were outsiders. But they formed this subculture, and this identity. But now geek culture is mainstream culture, and board gaming has been normalized. So geeks are no longer geeks. They are no longer outsiders. So yay.

But that also means that geek culture doesn't exist as separate culture, and gates are an illusion, and the gate keepers don't actually exist, and ....their identity as board gamers or geeks is a non-identity. And so it's like this big hobby wide existential identity crisis.

But wait, the "old guard" still has something to hold on to as an identity. They are the "old guard." They are members of the inner cabal. And they have all their in-jokes and memes by which to identify each other and themselves. You hear them calling to each other across the internet like children playing Marco Polo:

"Wood for Sheep"
"Busen Memo"
"Wood for Sheep"
"Busen Memo"
"Monopoly - hahahah!"

But meanwhile all the nouveau gamers are totally ignoring them, or if they are paying attention, they are just looking at them in that way kids look at their dad when they tell a dad joke. Like WTH, "Busen Memo.???? That's not funny it's creepy."

So the culture is in this place of transition. This video is like the last gasp of the "old guard" who are trying to hold onto identity while simultaneously trying the shed it and connect with the nouveau board gamers. We are nerds, but we are not nerds. Fuck it, we don't know who we are anymore.

To witness it try this. There are dozens of board game discussion groups on FB that have sprung up over night - like 20,000 members in less than two years. Follow one for a few days. You'll see people talking like normal people about games - like as normal as asking for a restaurant recommendation or if a new movie that just came out is any good. Then start following the boardgamegeek discussion group. Boardgamegeek grew slowly over the years and defined board game culture for over a decade. It gave birth to all the gatekeepers of the hobby - the in jokes, and memes, and this almost impenetrable language - this is the culture of the "old guard." In your news feed read all these posts, without looking at which group they are from and there will be tons of them when you start following a couple groups at the same time). All the ones that make you wince a bit - boardgamegeek.
Last edit: 20 Feb 2019 23:07 by ubarose.
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20 Feb 2019 22:45 - 20 Feb 2019 22:48 #292800 by RobertB

Shellhead wrote: Gatekeeping is used in a fairly specific sense with respect to comic book franchises. Loyal fans of the comic book characters resent fans who primarily know the characters due to modern superhero movies. And there is an additional level of gatekeeping aimed at women in general, because there are certain incel comic fans who think that only males should be reading comics. I suspect there is some gatekeeping in board game circles that is aimed at just women, but it seems like there is also a broader hostility to normal people who begin to show some interest in board games. I find gatekeepers to be pathetic losers.


My daughter has ran into those comic book fan 'gatekeepers', more than once. Sometimes she wants to fight with the trolls, but usually they just get blocked. Unfortunately, she now expects that from all nerd-culture-type guys. She was worried about getting this crap as a new D&D player, and I had to talk her off the ledge a little bit.
Last edit: 20 Feb 2019 22:48 by RobertB.
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21 Feb 2019 02:31 - 21 Feb 2019 02:35 #292802 by Sevej
The video looks just dudes enjoying themselves to me...

But the switch to mainstream & gatekeeping, well, I feel it. I mean... yesterday in social media, an elementary kid asked: Why are board games so expensive? some are even 2 millions rupiah (USD150)?

And some dudes just say, no expensive board games, you're just poor. For real.

I really want to smack in saying, it's a product designed to be sold in an area with 5-10 times the local income level (the local monthly minimum wage is around $250, and it's among the highest nationally), and when it got here, you have to pay extra for the freight from the other side of the world, duty, and taxes. But... bleh, I don't care anymore about the "community".
Last edit: 21 Feb 2019 02:35 by Sevej.
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21 Feb 2019 04:36 #292803 by jur

Sevej wrote: But... bleh, I don't care anymore about the "community".


Which is exactly what gatekeeping is about. You are made to no longer feel part of the community.

Had the same experience last couple of days as someone on the BGG wargames forum requested examples of (operational) games with social issues and met with hostility (which you don't get asking for games that depict campaigns of the SS). Somebody literally asked twice why this was on 'our wargames forum'.

And after I called him out on that the guy doubled down on it in a Jack Nicholson in A Few Good Men way, which I was sad was moderated out. I could have used that every time some old guy laments the sad state of wargaming and point out that there are-were assholes that were happy to shoo those away that thought of wargames as more than hex-n-counters.
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21 Feb 2019 09:55 - 21 Feb 2019 09:56 #292816 by ubarose
Yes there is also that intentional gatekeeping where people build themselves up by putting others down or making them feel stupid. It's sad. It's also not unique to board gaming.

BTW - I don't think the video is gatekeeping.
Last edit: 21 Feb 2019 09:56 by ubarose.

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21 Feb 2019 10:06 #292818 by Jexik
I showed the video to my wife who started playing games like this with Hanabi 4 years ago. She said, "if you're in this video you're a geek."
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