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Bugs: Recent Topics Paging, Uploading Images & Preview (11 Dec 2020)

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The Use of Apps for Board Games

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30 Apr 2019 15:03 #296320 by DarthJoJo

GorillaGrody wrote: Unless a major shift happens, I predict that in 10 years FFG itself won’t exist, being that their inherent market strategy has been reduced to solely renting out larger companies’ IP.


Though there’s at least one significant new Lord of the Rings/Star Wars/Game of Thrones release from Fantasy Flight every year, they do own Arkham, Keyforge, Android and L5R, and some of their best work is coming out of those first two settings right now. Fantasy Flight will be fine, even if it does start to hemorrhage major licenses.
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30 Apr 2019 20:20 #296347 by Sevej

ubarose wrote: Is this Lord of the Ring game a licensed game? I would be concerned if it is. If a license goes bye-bye the app goes bye-bye. So in addition to concerns about the app needing to be upgraded whenever the OS of devices upgrades, you now have to also be concerned that if for some reason you need to re-download the app, you are forked.

And even if it isn't licensed, personally, if I am shelling out money for a board game I don't want to be dependent on fan service to be able to play the game a few years down the road.


It's available on Steam also. Websites are archiving APKs--even their old versions--all the time. And there are android emulators. That's without fans doing anything. It'll be around for some time.

If it's *any* good, which I mentioned earlier, fans will then do something. From hosting old versions, to reverse engineering them. Then it'll be around *forever*.

I'm not shelling out money either, but saying that it'll be gone in a few years is fear mongering.
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01 May 2019 06:27 - 01 May 2019 06:34 #296353 by n815e

Sevej wrote:

n815e wrote:

Sevej wrote:

n815e wrote: Will a functioning app still be available twenty years from now? How about two?


Dude, I just played a 1993 game--that's 26 years back. If it's good enough, some people will go out of their way to make it work.


You just played an app-run game from 1993? Wow!

Any game that requires the use of technology that isn’t self-contained within the game is on a timer.
Unless the game develops a dedicated following where someone will develop a new companion application to maintain the life of that game, most of these games are going to die very quickly.
Sales dropping? License lost? Publisher loses interest? Then zero money and resources will be invested in maintaining it or keeping up with technology changes.

That 1993 game you played was all paper and/or plastic, right?
That technology never becomes outdated.


Wow dude, I don't know how unsavvy you are at technology. Please stop making a fool of yourself.

The game was Desert Strike for SNES. I played it on my Windows 7 laptop.


I’m a fool because you referenced a video game on a board gaming site and you didn’t specify the type of game you played?

You are only playing to my point that there has to be someone that cares enough to keep the game alive. Retro video gaming is super cool and in, yeah someone invested time in making those games available again.

But as I wrote before, let’s meetup and you bring your heaps of landfill to play with.
Last edit: 01 May 2019 06:34 by n815e.

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01 May 2019 07:23 - 01 May 2019 07:26 #296354 by Sevej
Dunno man, I thought with you're talking about App, it should have been clear. The sentence doesn't make sense with non-electronic game.

Go to this site:

apkpure.com/star-wars-imperial-assault-a...tasyflightgames.iaca

This site hosts an APK of FFG Imperial Assault app. No one cares, this doesn't involve "fans". The site just automatically do it. This kind of sites are numerous. They even archive each update/version.

So even if somehow the license expires, play store no longer have it... it's going to be SOMEWHERE.

And with Steam version around? It's going to be *somewhere*.

I wouldn't be surprised if people stop playing board game first, before the APK/steam version is gone.
Last edit: 01 May 2019 07:26 by Sevej.

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01 May 2019 07:48 #296355 by n815e
App supported board games aren’t video games, though.

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01 May 2019 08:00 - 01 May 2019 08:10 #296357 by Sevej

n815e wrote: App supported board games aren’t video games, though.


Whoa, you didn't even read what I wrote about APK websites.

Just to make sure you understand:

1. APK = Android Package, you can download this and unpack the APK and have the app in your phone without getting it from playstore
2. FFG Imperial Assault = FFG Star Wars _board game_ which uses an _app_

So, it's an app supported board game. You can say board games app are not games, but the way they are delivered are nearly identical to video games.

Should I provide link to Android emulators you can run from you pc/laptop also?
Last edit: 01 May 2019 08:10 by Sevej.

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01 May 2019 09:51 #296361 by ubarose

Sevej wrote:

n815e wrote: App supported board games aren’t video games, though.


Whoa, you didn't even read what I wrote about APK websites.

Just to make sure you understand:

1. APK = Android Package, you can download this and unpack the APK and have the app in your phone without getting it from playstore
2. FFG Imperial Assault = FFG Star Wars _board game_ which uses an _app_

So, it's an app supported board game. You can say board games app are not games, but the way they are delivered are nearly identical to video games.

Should I provide link to Android emulators you can run from you pc/laptop also?


Does this help someone, like me, who is totally on Apple?

What are the chances that Disney's legal department sends them a cease and desist letter if FFG doesn't renew the license?
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01 May 2019 10:04 #296362 by Shellhead

GorillaGrody wrote: Yep. It’s not the tech, it’s the market. Any market that depends on renting out moribund old IPs “but with a twist” is inherently janky and untrustworthy. Unless a major shift happens, I predict that in 10 years FFG itself won’t exist, being that their inherent market strategy has been reduced to solely renting out larger companies’ IP.


From what I have been hearing in local gaming circles (I live 3 miles away from the FFG Event Center) Asmodee is going through a great deal of internal turmoil. The headquarters in Europe is run by serious business people, but the various acquisitions like FFG and Plaid Hat are still largely staffed by unprofessional gamer types. Almost everybody is a manager, entire departments don't communicate with each other, and some of the decisions for Asmodee North America are being made in Canada instead of the regional headquarters in Minnesota. If the rumors are right, the industry is probably going to see evidence this summer, as Asmodee shows up at the major conventions with smaller booths in sub-optimal locations. On top of that, much of FFG's success came from three aging licenses: Lord of the Rings, Game of Thrones, and Star Wars.
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01 May 2019 10:20 - 01 May 2019 10:21 #296363 by Gary Sax
They're also owned by private equity iirc, whose MO is firing as many people as possible and selling off assets to fund the debt taken on to acquire the company. Don't know if euro private equity operates the same way, but it's a very bad thing to be acquired by a private equity company in the US if you work there.
Last edit: 01 May 2019 10:21 by Gary Sax.
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01 May 2019 10:41 - 01 May 2019 11:01 #296365 by Sevej
@Uba

I'm sure you have laptop/Mac? You can always use android emulator.

While it's possible they send cease & desist to *all* these archival sites, as the monetary effect is virtually 0, it's highly unlikely.

Again, the Descent app is 3 years old, IA 2 years old, and I'm not seeing them gone in a few years. As they are also in Steam, you can download them in archive format/package.

There are lots of things I dislike about board game/apps, the future-proofing of the app is definitely not one of them.
Last edit: 01 May 2019 11:01 by Sevej.
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01 May 2019 18:06 #296374 by n815e

Whoa, you didn't even read what I wrote about APK websites.


Stay focused, here.
Convo is about app supported board games.
You brought up old video games without context and confound the two of them.

Glad you are back in board games.
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01 May 2019 18:11 #296375 by n815e

Shellhead wrote:

GorillaGrody wrote: Yep. It’s not the tech, it’s the market. Any market that depends on renting out moribund old IPs “but with a twist” is inherently janky and untrustworthy. Unless a major shift happens, I predict that in 10 years FFG itself won’t exist, being that their inherent market strategy has been reduced to solely renting out larger companies’ IP.


From what I have been hearing in local gaming circles (I live 3 miles away from the FFG Event Center) Asmodee is going through a great deal of internal turmoil. The headquarters in Europe is run by serious business people, but the various acquisitions like FFG and Plaid Hat are still largely staffed by unprofessional gamer types. Almost everybody is a manager, entire departments don't communicate with each other, and some of the decisions for Asmodee North America are being made in Canada instead of the regional headquarters in Minnesota. If the rumors are right, the industry is probably going to see evidence this summer, as Asmodee shows up at the major conventions with smaller booths in sub-optimal locations. On top of that, much of FFG's success came from three aging licenses: Lord of the Rings, Game of Thrones, and Star Wars.


Christian Petersen retired for a reason.
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02 May 2019 00:41 - 02 May 2019 00:48 #296387 by Sevej

n815e wrote:

Whoa, you didn't even read what I wrote about APK websites.


Stay focused, here.
Convo is about app supported board games.
You brought up old video games without context and confound the two of them.

Glad you are back in board games.


I made repeated mention how app for board games distribution are handled much like video games, especially these days, and you're keep avoiding responding to it, and instead keep commenting on tangential stuff. I guess you're no longer interested discussing how these apps will be around for "more than a few years".
Last edit: 02 May 2019 00:48 by Sevej.

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02 May 2019 02:34 - 02 May 2019 03:35 #296388 by Frohike
Because I totally want to set up some fucking emulator to play my board game....

Edit: ok, now with a bit less smarm.

I realize that board games are less an object than they are an apparatus, occupying a space somewhere between the rules, the minds of the players, the bits, and now the semi-automated mechanisms.

However, I feel like I should assert that yes, I actually wouldn’t mind playing a 20ish year old game like Ra or Lost Cities or Carcassonne but would probably drop it if parts of it needed to be reconstructed with fanmade software that may or may not work or an emulator. It’s a quality of life thing for me.

Maybe I’m biased because I’m a software engineer and don’t need my day job to get all up in my business with my gaming hobby.

I think it’s also just formalist snobbery on my part. The formal limits of purely analog components force designers to come up with creative ways to implement their designs. I, perhaps idealistically, think that this leads toward maximizing the “fun” that’s produced by running all of the parts of the game. Offloading “unfun” parts of a game to a program just feels like you’ve effectively baked boredom into the game, but insulated it with a bot.
Last edit: 02 May 2019 03:35 by Frohike.
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02 May 2019 03:28 - 02 May 2019 03:31 #296389 by Sevej

Frohike wrote: Because I totally want to set up some fucking emulator to play my board game....


No, because the fucking APK & steam version will be around for years to come.

Obviously, if you want to play the game well after the support is gone, you like the game very much. Otherwise, it doesn't matter if the app is around, you'd just throw the bad game away. People here have made whole physical copies of a game they like. Why the fuck--in comparison--setting up an emulator for a game you really like bothers you?
Last edit: 02 May 2019 03:31 by Sevej.

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