What TOADS are you SHELVING?

Certain games tend to become toads because they run too long for modern sensibilities, so you can't just casually get them on the table. You need players to know in advance that they will be playing this game and it's long, and more or less the make this a specific event for the game. The players also need to commit to the game and not commence whining or advocating for a quick wrap-up after two hours.

southernman wrote:

Rliyen wrote:

southernman wrote: I've probably got a few too many games, keeping them sitting just below a hundred but some KSers are arriving this year, and some don't get played that often but nearly all are wanted - I'd hate to call any of the games that I want to keep Toads but these probably have a low probability of getting played any time in the near/mid future:
- Tide of Iron plus two unpunched expansions (2-player days just don't happen much now)
- Samurai Swords (battered box but mint inside, I can get Fortress America out every year or two but can't spare a valuable slot for this)
Tadpoles (hard to get out but don't want to get rid of) are:
Star Trek: Fleet Captains
Star Wars: Rebellion

So help me God, if you get rid of that SW: OT Risk I sent you, I will find a way to sneak into the country and beat you!

Not a chance [quietly removes it from his Math Trade list]
And I hope you still have the LotR: Sauron expansion .... I had to trade my bundle away finally this year after not being able to get either of my gaming groups to play it for years (and to help keep my games list below three figures).

Yeppers. Still in the collection. A worthy addition to The Mean Game^TM (as my wife likes to call it). We still play it, but it has been a while with our group.

I realized I never pitched in on this thread. Re-organizing my X-Wing stuff brought this to mind.

Android: Netrunner - I loved Netrunner. Then I sold it because I got sick of keeping up. Then I rebought it about 18 months ago. We have since played through Terminal Directive, which was a rather poor legacy experience overall. I still absolutely love the game though. I bought a bunch (like 20 or 30) datapacks from Miniature Market when they were clearancing them out and haven't opened them yet. This game is simply too hard to play when only one person owns the cards. I don't want to get rid of it because it's too damn good.

Battlestations: 2nd Edition - We started a campaign of this and the players want to get back to it. So maybe it shouldn't be on here. Still, I for some reason don't often think of this game when trying to figure out what we're playing on game night. Part of that is because the ruleset is RPG-ish, and without playing it often enough I forget most of it. This new edition is really strong though and it will get played at some point, so it's staying for now.

Block Mania - I've owned this for five or six years. Never played it. It's too creaky and long is my impression. Not sure what to do with it because it looks neat.

Detective: City of Angels - I like this game quite a bit, although downtime is a bit of a problem. One of my group members thought it was boring. I don't see myself playing it too much, at least with my current group. I have it for sale but it's an expensive game.

Heroscape - I don't know why I'm not playing this. I bought a huge lot (multiple big totes) from a TWBGer two years ago. It's sat in my basement. My daughter would be into this so I need to break it out. I have to admit though, I'm a bit scared to play it considering all of the testimony on BGG about the old plastic becoming brittle and snapping apart when assembling terrain.

Sergeants Miniatures Game - The most expensive thing I own. There are many things I really dislike about this one, but it's also unique and very compelling. If I could get what I paid for it, I probably would choose to part with it, although I'd likely miss it. I re-read the rules and get back into it once every 2-3 years or so.

X-Wing - I used to play this probably twice a year casually with my group, and that was honestly enough to justify keeping it. I've never played competitively and I'm fine with that. I really dig the changes in 2.0, but that edition also put this into a weird position where I played it less after my initial burst. I just now am tackling re-organizing everything so that I have a chance to play this again. I would 100% throw out all of my 1.0 stuff if I didn't have a complete Heroes of the Aturi Cluster set. So I need to maintain both editions unfortunately.

Techno Bowl - This is about 50% that it's two player only, and about 50% that it's rules are dense enough that I need to re-read them entirely to play it again. I adore it too much to get rid of it though and I do still think it's the best sports game (followed closely by Blitz Bowl).

Wings of Glory - I have a decent set of WW2 Atlantic stuff, and I like this game quite a bit. It just never comes out. The rules are simple enough and I should push for it more. I did buy a B-17 which looks absolutely fantastic, but haven't gotten that played with yet.

Sergeants had some interesting ideas, looked cool to play. But the price point was very high given the fairly limited scope of content ( basically Normandy only ) . We played a 4 player game at a con and to buy into a set up for that was around $400 IIRC. 
I resisted my saving throw and am glad I did. It looks like the company that produced it, Lost Battalion, was dormant for awhile during the pandemic as their FB page has long periods of silence.  Currently most of the line looks to be out of stock. 

I wonder if AmeriTrash games are more prone to toadiness? Like, any game can potentially get dusty, but a gamer might feel more attached and optimistic about playing a well-themed and dramatic game. But eurogames tend to start with mechanics and often fail to rise above a mere mechanical implementation, leading to less sentimental attachment. I wonder this because I now belong to a local facebook group specifically intended to be a marketplace and trading post for used board games. Most of the games up for sale are euros, and it seems like the only ameritrash there are big stupid kickstarters with a bazillion minis and slipshod rules.

Yeah, it's a very neat and ambitious game and everytime I play I have a blast. The company has just had a plethora of small mistakes that have built up over the years.

Stuff like all the troops that came with the British Kickstarter expansion having the rank of Lance Corporal instead of Private. If I'm buying a squad of troops I don't want them all to be junior NCOs.

Stuff like the original grenade check rules being based on a faulty application of algorithm - that took the forum convincing designer/publisher Jeff Billings of his mistake to change the rules.

I even was stupid enough to buy the vehicle expansion stuff a couple of years ago, which is a bit of a mess.

Shellhead wrote: I wonder if AmeriTrash games are more prone to toadiness? Like, any game can potentially get dusty, but a gamer might feel more attached and optimistic about playing a well-themed and dramatic game. But eurogames tend to start with mechanics and often fail to rise above a mere mechanical implementation, leading to less sentimental attachment. I wonder this because I now belong to a local facebook group specifically intended to be a marketplace and trading post for used board games. Most of the games up for sale are euros, and it seems like the only ameritrash there are big stupid kickstarters with a bazillion minis and slipshod rules.

I think another reason is that these days shipping Ameritrash games is a huge PITA and expensive. I had to Unabomber a box together to ship out Starcraft recently; KS games are easy to sell because if you're smart, you save the box they shipped in. Most people aren't gonna get bent out of shape if an old copy of AGRICOLA gets jammed in a Priority Mail box. They will if some $100 AT game gets damaged.

Msample wrote:

Shellhead wrote: I wonder if AmeriTrash games are more prone to toadiness? Like, any game can potentially get dusty, but a gamer might feel more attached and optimistic about playing a well-themed and dramatic game. But eurogames tend to start with mechanics and often fail to rise above a mere mechanical implementation, leading to less sentimental attachment. I wonder this because I now belong to a local facebook group specifically intended to be a marketplace and trading post for used board games. Most of the games up for sale are euros, and it seems like the only ameritrash there are big stupid kickstarters with a bazillion minis and slipshod rules.

I think another reason is that these days shipping Ameritrash games is a huge PITA and expensive. I had to Unabomber a box together to ship out Starcraft recently; KS games are easy to sell because if you're smart, you save the box they shipped in. Most people aren't gonna get bent out of shape if an old copy of AGRICOLA gets jammed in a Priority Mail box. They will if some $100 AT game gets damaged.

That's a good point. This particular Facebook group that I joined is local, though, so people do their deals face-to-face once they come to an agreement about price and payment method. I did my first deal (Mansions of Madness 1st) in the FFG Event Center parking lot. It was an easy landmark since we were both gamers.

Shellhead wrote: Most of the games up for sale are euros, and it seems like the only ameritrash there are big stupid kickstarters with a bazillion minis and slipshod rules.

It's just a hunch, but it sure feels like those two types of games alone make 90% of the 'hobby' market today.

charlest wrote: I realized I never pitched in on this thread. Re-organizing my X-Wing stuff brought this to mind.

Android: Netrunner - I loved Netrunner. Then I sold it because I got sick of keeping up. Then I rebought it about 18 months ago. We have since played through Terminal Directive, which was a rather poor legacy experience overall. I still absolutely love the game though. I bought a bunch (like 20 or 30) datapacks from Miniature Market when they were clearancing them out and haven't opened them yet. This game is simply too hard to play when only one person owns the cards. I don't want to get rid of it because it's too damn good.
.
.
.
Heroscape - I don't know why I'm not playing this. I bought a huge lot (multiple big totes) from a TWBGer two years ago. It's sat in my basement. My daughter would be into this so I need to break it out. I have to admit though, I'm a bit scared to play it considering all of the testimony on BGG about the old plastic becoming brittle and snapping apart when assembling terrain.
.
.
.
X-Wing - I used to play this probably twice a year casually with my group, and that was honestly enough to justify keeping it. I've never played competitively and I'm fine with that. I really dig the changes in 2.0, but that edition also put this into a weird position where I played it less after my initial burst. I just now am tackling re-organizing everything so that I have a chance to play this again. I would 100% throw out all of my 1.0 stuff if I didn't have a complete Heroes of the Aturi Cluster set. So I need to maintain both editions unfortunately.

Netrunner is one of the awesomest games ever, and it's a damn shame they stopped printing it. I still have my cards, but nobody I know wants to put together their own set and play it.

I have two full sets of Heroscape, one new in its box. I should probably sell them both.

I have X-Wing 2.0, Star Trek:Attack Wing, and D&D: Attack Wing. I've got no willpower to stop me from getting one, then can't find someone to play with.

charlest wrote: Heroscape - I don't know why I'm not playing this. I bought a huge lot (multiple big totes) from a TWBGer two years ago. It's sat in my basement. My daughter would be into this so I need to break it out. I have to admit though, I'm a bit scared to play it considering all of the testimony on BGG about the old plastic becoming brittle and snapping apart when assembling terrain.

Can confirm. The last time I got out my Heroscape stuff, I probably broke half a dozen water tiles. The regular land terrain tiles seem okay, but for whatever reason, the water / swamp tiles turn to brittle glass over time.

Yes. When I sold my Heroscape lot I had a pile of broken, brittle pieces.

Which is symbolic. Because I’m going to spit some hard truth here. It’s time to cut Heroscape loose y’all. Look, 15 years ago it was fun. It’s almost 20 years old now and there’s only been about 500 games that have come out since that do light tactical skirmish a hundred times better. The novelty of the plastic toys wears off and all you are left with is tubs and tubs of plastic and a kinda-sorta OK game that takes forever to set up that you are holding on to because you remember getting Rise of the Valkyrie and being really excited about it. Folks, what you are holding on to with Heroscape is not the game. It’s nostalgia. You don’t really want 4x Volcarren Wasteland sets. What you want is 2005-2006 back and the fun you had with friends at the time that you may have lost touch with along the way. You want that big thrill of showing up at your buddy’s house and he’s got a massive setup ready and you spend 10 hours playing games on it. I’m here to tell you that those tubs of brittle plastic do not contain those memories of good times.

This could be said about a lot of the games I see talked about here. Y’all are holding on to some of this stuff as if that 1985, 1995. 2005 energy is in those boxes. I’ve done this myself, holding on to games because man we had a good time playing that 15 years ago, I’ll never get rid of it because it’ll be like getting rid of that good time. But friends this is what the Happy Mondays called stinkin’ thinkin’.

How many games, miniatures, books sit on shelves gathering dust because of a couple of fun nights with friends -a decade- ago?

I love the good-natured flack I take from some of y’all about flipping games al the time but I want my collection to reflect what I am currently interested in and currently want to play. I have a few long time favorites, sure, but they are still currently played and enjoyed. I don’t store memories on a shelf.

And I also don’t store aspirations on a shelf.I see a lots of folks keeping games in hopes of playing them one day. Why would anyone do this? That “rainy day” mentality leads to shelf clutter and toads everywhere.

There's validity to that perspective, certainly but, IIRC, Jexik's original point with this thread wasn't the stuff that's just sitting there because you haven't been willing to move it, but the stuff we were holding on to because those emotional attachments and memories made it worthwhile. I cull my collection pretty frequently and am regularly trying to trade stuff that I don't see myself playing anymore. A prime example of this was the complete set of Arkham Horror, 2nd Ed. that I moved. We had great times with it, but it wasn't going to get used to its full capacity anymore and would be better off in someone else's hands who could really discover and enjoy it. Similarly, I had held on to TORG and Gamma World stuff for 40 years in some cases because I loved that stuff. But I found someone willing to pay me $300 for it and that was enough to let it go. Taking advantage of that kind of opportunity makes sense, IMO.

But I don't think clearing stuff out just to make space is a viable argument. "Shelf clutter" means less than nothing to me. If you want to keep stuff, then you'll find space for it.

You're right, Barnes. Shelf toads endure due to nostalgia. In recent times, I have taken a hard look at my collection, to determine what I should sell or give away. The crucial criteria has been asking and answering "Who will play this game with me, and how often might that realistically happen?"

One obvious toad based on those questions is Twilight Imperium 3rd. Nearly 100% of my friends won't play it. Some tried it and didn't like it. Most lack the patience for a long game. It will only get played if I acquire several new friends who are all willing to try it and also haven't moved on to Twilight Imperium 4th.

Along the same lines, any solitaire game that has become a toad need to go immediately. The usual problem with a shelf toad is that nobody wants to play it. But if even the game owner doesn't want to play solo, during an epidemic, that's more of a dead toad than a shelf toad.

I have a veritable shit ton of games I want to sell. Do you get decent prices at Noble Knight? I prefer minimal effort.

First one to go is the original Glory to Rome