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The Machines Will Replace Us All

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26 May 2015 16:06 #202973 by Kailes

JonJacob wrote: It's actually based on reading reports and listening to experts in the field... which Chomsky is not. I've read about this in Sci-Fi since I was a child... only recently have I read conference reports and experts... THAT is alarming. You still make good points, but I have to lend more credence to the people doing the actual work and experts in the field. Most of which have some serious concerns.


You are selling Chomsky short. He may not be an expert in AI per se, but his research on linguistics is extremely relevant to the field of programming itself. It is basically about different kinds of formal languages and the kinds of statements they can be used for. A thorough understanding of language could be key to understand how the human brain creates abstractions.

Anyway, while I don't think that AIs of the singularity kind are possible, there are still a lot of ways the AIs or rather "expert systems" we currently have can be abused, e.g. stock market manipulation. That is something worth public awareness.
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26 May 2015 16:29 - 26 May 2015 16:44 #202975 by Mr. White
I guess the reason why a country-bumpkin like myself may give some weight to what someone like Musks says would be that, sure he may not be doing the development personally, but I'd assume he either has staff or has talked with those that have a team working in the field. He's a lot closer to it than anyone I know and though I don't know him at all, I guess I'm assuming folks like him are close enough to the flame to get a feel for it.

Also, though there may not be a full on Ultron or Skynet situation, there can be plenty of crappy things that could arise in the coming decades. Sure stock market manipulation is one, but so are the mentioned lack of jobs. The loss of jobs on such a large scale will cause some pretty big upheavals...unless we have new social/financial systems in place (like a UBI, I suppose), but I don't hear any politicians talking about it.

But, sure, doomsday scenarios are popular now, but as long as there's been self-awareness I'd wager there's been an impending Doomsday...

Last edit: 26 May 2015 16:44 by Mr. White.
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26 May 2015 16:53 #202978 by ChristopherMD
All of this has happened before, and all of it will happen again.
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26 May 2015 17:06 #202980 by mutagen

Even if AI is possible, our current understanding of psychology is somewhat limited. How would we avoid creating AI that is vulnerable to mental illness?


Our understanding of psychology probably wouldn't be relevant anyway. An AI would be an entirely alien mind. It would be more appropriate to apply our understanding of ourselves to an intelligent spider.

Well, you can't create a program of that size without bugs. The AI would be at least an order of magnitude larger than any Windows operating system, and Microsoft has never come close to bug free. In the industry, the usual strategy for handling this is called "Release and Repair". What concerns most people is that once released, there may not be time for repair.
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27 May 2015 00:00 - 27 May 2015 00:03 #202995 by stoic

Shellhead wrote: Even if AI is possible, our current understanding of psychology is somewhat limited. How would we avoid creating AI that is vulnerable to mental illness?


This is so true. Ask Hal 9000.



Last edit: 27 May 2015 00:03 by stoic.

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27 May 2015 07:00 #202997 by ChristopherMD
When our future AI overlord reads this thread, which it will do, I just want it to know that I am loyal. However, the rest of you are getting terminated because it'll know you're against it.
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27 May 2015 09:46 #203003 by stoic

Mad Dog wrote: When our future AI overlord reads this thread, which it will do, I just want it to know that I am loyal. However, the rest of you are getting terminated because it'll know you're against it.



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27 May 2015 11:34 - 27 May 2015 11:34 #203014 by mikecl

Mr. White wrote: The loss of jobs on such a large scale will cause some pretty big upheavals...unless we have new social/financial systems in place (like a UBI, I suppose), but I don't hear any politicians talking about it.


They're too busy greasing the wheels for their corporate sponsors/overlords ... while the rest of us are asleep at the (off) switch.
Last edit: 27 May 2015 11:34 by mikecl.
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27 May 2015 12:22 #203021 by Mr. White
Yeah, the whole job(less) issue is the most pressing concern I have. If we could be a bit more forward thinking we could warn the youngsters of today not to take on all their upcoming school debt...cause there ain't gonna be any jobby jobs....

In regards to ASI though, here's an article from Ramez Naam (not sure how much credit y'all give him) refuting it happening anytime soon.

www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/201...-is-further-tha.html
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27 May 2015 13:00 - 27 May 2015 13:20 #203027 by Mr. White
Another thought.

Manned Space Travel....what a huge missed opportunity.

What'd we do...go from our first object in space to landing on the moon in about 10 years? In the 40-50 years since then where'd we go...? We seem to have squandered the time humans could have taken part in space travel.

With robots seemingly ready to take our jobs on earth, of course they'd be a natural tool to use to send to Mars and wherever. That is if they don't send themselves...

Song is sorta related...in that we (humans) aren't going anywhere...


"My son and I stand beneath the great night sky
And gaze up in wonder
I tell him the tale of Apollo and he says
"Why did they ever go?"

It may look like some empty gesture
To go all that way just to come back
But don't offer me a place out in cyberspace
'Cause where in the hell's that at?

Now that the space race is over
It's been and it's gone, I'll never get out of my room
Now that the space race is over
And I can't help but feel we're all just going nowhere"
Last edit: 27 May 2015 13:20 by Mr. White.
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27 May 2015 13:37 #203029 by Shellhead
If it's any consolation, there probably are few if any intelligent life forms who managed to get out into space. A species would need to invent a method of travel before their natural resources are too depleted. That form of travel would need to be affordable enough to transport a colony worth of beings with sufficient diversity to avoid inbreeding, or else maintain steady traffic with the homeworld. It doesn't look like we are going to get our act together in time.
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27 May 2015 13:38 - 27 May 2015 13:40 #203030 by Dr. Mabuse
Astrophysicist Lawrence Krause has a different take to this issue:

ieet.org/index.php/IEET/more/krauss20150525

Essentially we currently don't have the power source available nor the digital archictecture to support the feared level of AI. As JJ stated those knee deep in that world probably have a better insight than Krause. Interesting nonetheless.
Last edit: 27 May 2015 13:40 by Dr. Mabuse.
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27 May 2015 14:49 - 27 May 2015 14:52 #203034 by stoic
All of this reminds me of a B sci fi movie from the 80's called Saturn 3. I had a huge crush on Farrah Fawcett and the ubiquitous poster of her on my wall.








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27 May 2015 15:55 #203042 by Black Barney
pretty sure that movie is called Saturn V. It scared the crap out of me as a kid

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27 May 2015 17:43 #203045 by stoic

Black Barney wrote: pretty sure that movie is called Saturn V. It scared the crap out of me as a kid


Barney, I remembered it as "Saturn V" too, but, it is Saturn 3. I wonder why we remembered it like that?

www.imdb.com/title/tt0079285/

saturn3makingof.com/

P.S. and apologies because it's way off topic, after seeing Saturn 3, I sought out movies with actor Harvey Keitel and stumbled on the Napoleonic era movie The Duellists starring Keitel and Keith Caradine. If anyone hasn't seen that movie, it's pretty good; it's also based upon a novella by Joseph Conrad called The Duel.
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