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Stellaris
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20 Nov 2018 14:23 #286563
by Count Orlok
Replied by Count Orlok on topic Stellaris
My biggest complaint about the game is that I catch wind of major changes which puts me off playing for awhile. Now I'm several expansions behind, but hope to jump in again after this next release. Although I have to admit, the game hasn't really grabbed me like EUIV or Crusader Kings II.
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21 Nov 2018 12:23 - 21 Nov 2018 12:24 #286624
by Gary Sax
Yeah, I've been having that with this expansion in particular (waiting to play). I played about 40-50 hours after the doomsday expansion, though, so if I can get that kind of time out of the next one I'm in.
That said, tbh, most of the key changes they've made in the last six months that have made the game so much better are all folded into the free patches. The complete econ overhaul and trade system will be in the free patch for this one too---you'll just be missing the option of a megacorp civ and I think the vagabond NPC civ (like the Quarrians in Mass Effect, basically).
fwiw, I'm sure I'll post about the new thing when it comes out here, if that would help you make up your mind. I will say overall I'm optimistic because their recent changes to the structure of the galaxy and putting every civ on starlanes has made the game much better.
That said, tbh, most of the key changes they've made in the last six months that have made the game so much better are all folded into the free patches. The complete econ overhaul and trade system will be in the free patch for this one too---you'll just be missing the option of a megacorp civ and I think the vagabond NPC civ (like the Quarrians in Mass Effect, basically).
fwiw, I'm sure I'll post about the new thing when it comes out here, if that would help you make up your mind. I will say overall I'm optimistic because their recent changes to the structure of the galaxy and putting every civ on starlanes has made the game much better.
Last edit: 21 Nov 2018 12:24 by Gary Sax.
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- Thank you received: 8343
07 Dec 2018 09:23 #287662
by Gary Sax
My first game with the new expansion. The core thing you're doing month in, month out has been *radically* changed. The internal economy is much more involved. I'm not sure yet if it's adding a ton, my first take is yes, but it is definitely making individual decisions you make about your planets more important. So a lot less clicking round in planets, more getting to a single point and making a single weightier decision about what building to build out (which will employ population, which will convert one resource into another in a specific way...). Even if it isn't perfect yet, I'm encouraged. The big problem with Stellaris is the long lulls if you aren't fighting or early game expanding.
My first game is a megacorporation that I'm lightly roleplaying (fanatic militarist/spirtualist):
I plan to immediately declare war on any slaving empire and remain at war as much as humanely possible.
My first game is a megacorporation that I'm lightly roleplaying (fanatic militarist/spirtualist):
I plan to immediately declare war on any slaving empire and remain at war as much as humanely possible.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Frohike
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07 Dec 2018 10:27 #287670
by RobertB
You guys sold me on getting a copy, so...thanks?
I started a new race last night - I want to say Democratic Socialist mammalians. I had just figured out most of the stuff you need to do in the old UI, so I guess I get to figure out how the new one works now.
I did get a kick out of the two default premade human societies. I played the first one to 2300 or so, and they were all, "Let's be friends! We love everybody!" Then I played the Commonwealth of Man, and their conversation choices were roughly, "Alien scum," "Stay out of our way," and "Stay our of our way, alien scum."
I started a new race last night - I want to say Democratic Socialist mammalians. I had just figured out most of the stuff you need to do in the old UI, so I guess I get to figure out how the new one works now.
I did get a kick out of the two default premade human societies. I played the first one to 2300 or so, and they were all, "Let's be friends! We love everybody!" Then I played the Commonwealth of Man, and their conversation choices were roughly, "Alien scum," "Stay out of our way," and "Stay our of our way, alien scum."
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07 Dec 2018 12:06 - 07 Dec 2018 12:06 #287683
by Gary Sax
Hope you like it! This game is a real tough lift in terms of understanding many of the systems initially---feel free to ask questions and I'll help if I can.
Stealth great feature in the new patch is the ability to set how many automatic colonizable planets start close to you. This had always bugged me and I don't mind RNG challenges and unwinnable games, so I now set it to zero.
Stealth great feature in the new patch is the ability to set how many automatic colonizable planets start close to you. This had always bugged me and I don't mind RNG challenges and unwinnable games, so I now set it to zero.
Last edit: 07 Dec 2018 12:06 by Gary Sax.
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08 Dec 2018 15:32 - 09 Dec 2018 13:42 #287754
by Gary Sax
Played maybe 8-10 hours of the patch now (they cancelled all finals due to snow today so I don't have much else to do stuck in TX). *Broad* impressions of the extensive changes:
1) Fundamentally, the game has been reoriented around planets and population. Power is now much more about your controlled worlds, their strength, and the relative harmony and condition of those worlds. Since your citizens no longer have a (low) capped population limit based on tiles and population is what produces resources of all kinds (ultimately channeled through different advanced buildings, etc), world management is central. As an example, what you mine from space, by and large, cannot be directly directed into creating ships---it has to be used through planetary alloy factories or traded at a poor rate in the galactic market for alloys. I think overall, this is a big win. I built a fucking *gene clinic* for the first time I think ever bc pop growth is so important and I was playing a small empire.
2) Playing tall empires is legitimately fun now. Because world management is so much more engaging, and planets don't have hard capped population, you can become a very powerful empire with 2-3 planets and well-managed planets.
3) Treating your population like shit finally is tempting and makes sense. They've *finally* gotten the balance between push and pull factors that encourage you to change living conditions, make dire planets, etc. I had to make one of my planets a strip mine planet made up mostly of workers in mines to feed my planetary capital, for example.
4) The trade goods/value system is simple, intuitive, and I think very slick. I think it's the closest mechanic in the patch that could be considered an "elegant" improvement.
5) Similarly, the galactic market works very nicely and makes the game play better, especially now that so many resources are required. You could easily decide to focus on one type of resource once the game gets going and buy the rest off the market, especially if you get techs and perks that help your trade efficiency.
6) Initial expansion is slower but I think more interesting, you need to make some choices before the empire penalty builds too highly on you (unless you're playing a wide horde strategy, then fuck being a little behind on tech). Don't be afraid to set that time to fast.
This post is important to give you a sense of how things work now internally in terms of how the economy looks:
www.reddit.com/r/Stellaris/comments/a4b9...e_flow_of_resources/
It also gives you a sense of the madness inherent in playing Paradox games. I have problems.
My final impression is that I think that the complexity is worth it. They've really hit upon a formula for internal management that is rewarding and gives you some key choices. They've struggled with "what do we do between wars in Stellaris?" for ages and they're getting there.
1) Fundamentally, the game has been reoriented around planets and population. Power is now much more about your controlled worlds, their strength, and the relative harmony and condition of those worlds. Since your citizens no longer have a (low) capped population limit based on tiles and population is what produces resources of all kinds (ultimately channeled through different advanced buildings, etc), world management is central. As an example, what you mine from space, by and large, cannot be directly directed into creating ships---it has to be used through planetary alloy factories or traded at a poor rate in the galactic market for alloys. I think overall, this is a big win. I built a fucking *gene clinic* for the first time I think ever bc pop growth is so important and I was playing a small empire.
2) Playing tall empires is legitimately fun now. Because world management is so much more engaging, and planets don't have hard capped population, you can become a very powerful empire with 2-3 planets and well-managed planets.
3) Treating your population like shit finally is tempting and makes sense. They've *finally* gotten the balance between push and pull factors that encourage you to change living conditions, make dire planets, etc. I had to make one of my planets a strip mine planet made up mostly of workers in mines to feed my planetary capital, for example.
4) The trade goods/value system is simple, intuitive, and I think very slick. I think it's the closest mechanic in the patch that could be considered an "elegant" improvement.
5) Similarly, the galactic market works very nicely and makes the game play better, especially now that so many resources are required. You could easily decide to focus on one type of resource once the game gets going and buy the rest off the market, especially if you get techs and perks that help your trade efficiency.
6) Initial expansion is slower but I think more interesting, you need to make some choices before the empire penalty builds too highly on you (unless you're playing a wide horde strategy, then fuck being a little behind on tech). Don't be afraid to set that time to fast.
This post is important to give you a sense of how things work now internally in terms of how the economy looks:
www.reddit.com/r/Stellaris/comments/a4b9...e_flow_of_resources/
It also gives you a sense of the madness inherent in playing Paradox games. I have problems.
My final impression is that I think that the complexity is worth it. They've really hit upon a formula for internal management that is rewarding and gives you some key choices. They've struggled with "what do we do between wars in Stellaris?" for ages and they're getting there.
Last edit: 09 Dec 2018 13:42 by Gary Sax.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Frohike
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12 Dec 2018 13:02 #288007
by Gary Sax
Still extremely happy with these changes despite their complexity. The fundamental tension between worker jobs and specialists just works, along with the additional layer of special resource requirements. The AI has been pretty wrecked by this change, though, which is fine with me given the scope and ambition of the overhaul *but* I hope it gets some attention sooner rather than later so the AI can figure out these new systems too.
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14 Dec 2018 03:10 - 14 Dec 2018 03:11 #288120
by Gary Sax
Got my research done early this evening and continued the megacorp game I'm playing... the economy is never in balance, in a really good way. It has made me mess with systems I've never bothered with before... in this case, widespread genetic engineering of my species to be more "useful." I love how fucking sinister this game can be.
If only the AI knew what the fuck they were doing!
If only the AI knew what the fuck they were doing!
Last edit: 14 Dec 2018 03:11 by Gary Sax.
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08 Jan 2019 16:45 #289430
by RobertB
Picked it back up again a few days ago. I had a break between warring with the neighbor civs, so I upgraded a lot of stuff. Then everything went to shit. All of my production, that was up around 100 before, suddenly dropped to -50s. WTF? Little did I know that if you don't have the required motes, gasses, and crystals that those upgrades need, all resource production takes a 25% production hit. It took about a game year to fix that.
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08 Jan 2019 20:26 #289450
by Gary Sax
Yeah, the new economy takes a game or two of adjustment. Producing the special resources takes a lot of minerals... but I've found the thing that kills your production most is when you build a new fancy 2nd tier building (eg alloy factory) it eats 2-8 workers who were previously producing primary resources in districts. I've found you have to restrain yourself from building and especially upgrading advanced buildings until you have the workforce size that won't plunge you into negative primary resources once they upgrade.
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