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Formula 1 Extravaganza

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12 Jun 2022 15:15 #333614 by Gary Sax
Replied by Gary Sax on topic Formula 1 Extravaganza
Yeah man, I usually love this track too!

These reports from drivers are rough on the bouncing and pain.

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12 Jun 2022 20:58 #333624 by Msample
Replied by Msample on topic Formula 1 Extravaganza
The onboard footage from some of the cars like Hamilton is pretty brutal to watch.

Awhile back there was a documentary on the relatively high number of suicides and brain injuries among bobsledders and lugers; the cause is thought to be not so much from huge crashes but "micro " impacts from basically their heads bouncing back and forth all the time as they slide down the courses at high speeds ( and those are far lower than F1 cars ). I can't help but wonder about the parallels to the cars this year and the porpoising issues.

As for the race itself Ferrari for once actually had some well thought out pit strategy; they were clearly slower than RBR so diving into the pits during the VSC was worth the gamble. All for naught when LeClercs engine grenaded itself. He is now behind BOTH Red Bull drivers in the championship and to boot, is likely looking at engine penalties down the line as I think he's lost two engines to failure already. This championship which started out looking competitive is in danger of becoming a one team race.

Ferraris only hope is a combo of Red Bull reliability faltering and doing well on slower tracks like Austria or Singapore.
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12 Jun 2022 21:13 #333625 by Gary Sax
Replied by Gary Sax on topic Formula 1 Extravaganza
Russell is the drivers rep, I'm glad he won't shut up about it:

www.espn.com/f1/story/_/id/34075602/geor...ions-recipe-disaster

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12 Jun 2022 21:44 #333626 by Msample
Replied by Msample on topic Formula 1 Extravaganza
Several people have suggested going back to active suspension, which automatically adjusts the ride heights. This was banned 30 years ago in order to reduce the amount of driver aids - it also resulted in what was thought to be unsafely fast cornering speeds. It also is expensive and F1 is trying to reduce costs.

Its notable that some teams have found a way to reduce the porpoising, suggesting that if some teams cars are bouncing too much, they need to run them a bit higher off the ground - which will of course make them slower and nobody wants that.

Another solution would be inertial dampeners; these were banned about 15 years ago when Renault introduced them mid season as they were thought to be in violation of the rules about movable aero devices which is kind of hilarious. They seem to be a low tech and low cost remedy, not sure why they don't consider those.
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12 Jun 2022 21:47 - 12 Jun 2022 21:48 #333627 by Gary Sax
Replied by Gary Sax on topic Formula 1 Extravaganza
I am somewhat sympathetic to (presumably) red bull arguments that you can raise the ride height, go slower, and save your drivers. But that is an argument ignorant of labor's position in anything, regardless of how high priced the labor is. I think the only thing that solves this for the next three years is if the *drivers* get together and set some floor for driver safety vis a vis concussion, impact, whatever, and hold all teams to it. To expect like Merc to respect their driver's health with a rule that hasn't been imposed by all drivers is unrealistic---and the teams are never going to agree to it because red bull has basically figured it out well enough to pass most metrics.
Last edit: 12 Jun 2022 21:48 by Gary Sax.

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13 Jun 2022 09:32 - 13 Jun 2022 09:39 #333639 by Sagrilarus
Replied by Sagrilarus on topic Formula 1 Extravaganza
Mercedes' problem appears to be that the design of their car is so significantly different that they cannot make the kind of changes that Red Bull has made. They have less options available to them. When you're used to be the top dog on the track falling in with the likes of Haas and Alpine is more of a concession than the other teams would have to make. I'd be curious to hear how much this is still a problem for the teams farther down the rankings. They may have already lifted a bit to save their drivers.

If Hamilton and Russell are to be believed they may ask to sit out a race soon, because this coming race they're on one week's rest. When Karl from accounting is driving one of the Mercedes cars people will take notice.

Is this as much an issue due to the price cap as the design? I realize it's early but Red Bull is starting to pull away in spite of a few DNFs early in the season. If the other teams "can't figure it out" much longer it's going to be a pretty sleepy season.

I'm just curious if an injection of cash to each of the teams to be spent specifically on this problem in order to protect the long-term health of the drivers would be a prudent way to address the real issue here -- F1 looking bad. It would also help the drivers.
Last edit: 13 Jun 2022 09:39 by Sagrilarus.
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13 Jun 2022 20:33 - 13 Jun 2022 20:36 #333661 by Sagrilarus
Replied by Sagrilarus on topic Formula 1 Extravaganza
So apparently Russell has recommended a minimum gap requirement for under the cars, which would favor Mercedes.

I can’t imagine it isn’t taking its toll on the cars, too. The podcast I listened to indicated a 6G vertical acceleration on some cars.
Last edit: 13 Jun 2022 20:36 by Sagrilarus.
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13 Jun 2022 21:04 - 13 Jun 2022 21:05 #333662 by Gary Sax
Replied by Gary Sax on topic Formula 1 Extravaganza
I think the most realistic solution is implementing some driver impact related measure. Go over it, you're DQed or penalized. That reduces the pressure on drivers from team principals to just eat shit with all of this repeated head trauma.

Like I said up thread, I despise Christian Horner but I'm sympathetic to what he's saying here: www.espn.com/f1/story/_/id/34082975/chri...aying-bouncing-fears

Mercedes and others can increase ride height but they won't. It feels like Red Bull would be getting fucked for getting things right and not hurting their drivers.
Last edit: 13 Jun 2022 21:05 by Gary Sax.

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13 Jun 2022 21:16 #333663 by Msample
Replied by Msample on topic Formula 1 Extravaganza
One relatively low tech/impact thing would be to allow some sort of shock absorption for the drivers. Right now that is not allowed. Hell even a snall seat cushion system of some sort. As it stands now, they sit in a carbon fiber seat literally molded to their body.
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13 Jun 2022 21:42 #333666 by Sagrilarus
Replied by Sagrilarus on topic Formula 1 Extravaganza
I’m just amused that they’re suddenly referring to the cars’ engines as “engines” instead of power units. It’s like someone issued a memo announcing the change in verbiage.
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13 Jun 2022 22:00 #333668 by Msample
Replied by Msample on topic Formula 1 Extravaganza
Hadn't noticed that. I usually hear "power unit". What's hilarious is that there is an entire table/chart that shows how many of each subcomponent unit they are allotted. Exhaust, power unit, energy store ( battery ?) , MGU-K, MGU-H, etc. In the old days it was just one part - the engine.

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13 Jun 2022 22:21 #333670 by Gary Sax
Replied by Gary Sax on topic Formula 1 Extravaganza
MGU-H is out in 2026 to appease vw group so one less acronym for you.
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14 Jun 2022 08:36 #333677 by the_jake_1973
The porpoising has been a theory as to why the Ferrari power units have been failing. The cars are shaking themselves apart. I am a Ferrari fan boy, but it would be bad cricket to impose guidelines mid season that would benefit manufacturers that went down the wrong design road. It sucks, but if you need to scratch this season to save your driver for a modified chassis design next year, so be it.
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