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Are Westerns making a comeback in Hollywood?

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14 Jan 2008 15:25 - 14 Jan 2008 15:36 #635 by Million Dollar Mimring
A few years back I started taking an interest in westerns. The CCG Doomtown was probably responsible for a lot of that interest, but I can probably credit "Kill Bill Volume 2" just as much.

Westerns seem to be making a comeback, but it's more of a critical comeback. I've read more than a few top 10 lists that mention "The Assination of Jesse James...". It can also be argued that "No Country for Old Men" is a modern western. The previous year "The Proposition" came out to favorable reviews.

I'm of the opinion that the Western is as much Ameritrash as anything else.
Last edit: 14 Jan 2008 15:36 by Million Dollar Mimring.

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14 Jan 2008 15:32 #637 by Michael Barnes
NO COUNTRY FOR OLD MEN is absolutely a western in all but its time period- and it's an absolute masterpiece, one of the few films you could mention in the same breath as Hitchcock's best and it wouldn't seem out of place.

I haven't seen any of the other new westerns yet (keep meaning to see THE PROPOSITION)...but I'm really glad to see that the current westerns are of a stronger weight than say YOUNG GUNS II or SILVERADO. Every western to me, however, is a disappointment compared to the double-barrel of ONCE UPON A TIME IN THE WEST and THE WILD BUNCH.

The western theme is definitely an AT staple that's sorely underused. I should do a GUNSLINGER writeup over at Gameshark.com...

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14 Jan 2008 16:18 #639 by Deleted User 1
Just got finished playing "Wyatt Earp" at lunch today!

I haven't really seen a modern western I have really liked. My all time favorite western is "El Dorado".

"Red River" is probably the best western of all time.

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14 Jan 2008 16:58 #647 by Million Dollar Mimring
I enjoy the following westerns.

Note: It's really a standard list.

Dollars Trilogy
The Wild Bunch
The Searchers
Tombstone
Unforgiven
The Magnificent Seven

Probably should be reserved for another topic, but I find that a lot of Samurai and Westerns share a common theme(Magnificent Seven = Seven Samurai, Yojimbo = A Fistfull of Dollars). I really want to include a few Samurai films on my Westerns list, but it's close but no cigar.

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14 Jan 2008 16:58 #648 by Horacio Silva
I was a westerns hater until I saw "Deadwood"; I loved that series.

H

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14 Jan 2008 17:17 #653 by Michael Barnes
I'm a big fan of the European Westerns too...the Leone films, of course...but Sergio Corbucci's stuff is pretty god damned great- DJANGO and THE GREAT SILENCE are among my favorite westerns even though they've got that weird continental thing going on.

Spaghetti Westerns have some of the best titles:

SHOOT DJANGO! IF YOU LIVE, KILL!

NUDE DJANGO

HAVE A GOOD FUNERAL MY FRIEND, SARTANA WILL PAY

SARTANA IS COMING- TRADE YOUR GUNS FOR A COFFIN

A MAN CALLED BLADE

RINGO, PRAY TO YOUR GOD AND DIE

RINGO, IT'S MASSACRE TIME

GOD FORGIVES, I DON'T

Who wouldn't want to watch any of those based on title alone (except for NUDE DJANGO)?

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14 Jan 2008 17:57 #660 by Juniper
SHANE is the best movie ever made.

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14 Jan 2008 19:00 #669 by Mr Skeletor
I have shamefully seen very few westerns. I think I'll check a few of these recomendations out.

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14 Jan 2008 22:52 #690 by Ken B.
Michael Barnes wrote:

RINGO, PRAY TO YOUR GOD AND DIE



Wasn't that a George Harrison quote?


Ching Ching Chompy is Cooler said:

The Searchers



Damn, those guys are STILL looking? They ever going to find what they're after?

It's like "The Constant Gardener."



"Whatcha doin', man?"

"Gardening."

"Again?"

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14 Jan 2008 22:58 #691 by Million Dollar Mimring
I'm personally a fan of Firefly. Firefly is a great introduction to the Western for those unsure about watching Westerns. It blends Sci-Fi and Western.

Be warned that if you're not a fan of Buffy or Angel, you may want to avoid the show. All three shows are from the same creator.

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14 Jan 2008 23:08 #693 by Mr Skeletor
Million Dollar Mimring wrote:

I'm personally a fan of Firefly. Firefly is a great introduction to the Western for those unsure about watching Westerns. It blends Sci-Fi and Western.

Be warned that if you're not a fan of Buffy or Angel, you may want to avoid the show. All three shows are from the same creator.


Firefly love - something I will never understand in my lifetime.

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15 Jan 2008 04:03 #702 by schlupp
I haven't seen any of the new western in the cinema, I have to wait for the DVD versions as usual.

But I have watched all seasons of Deadwood and although I had trouble with the language, I loved the whole series. The best bad guys I've seen for a long time with Swearangen, Tolliver and Wallcott. Awesome, I just hope that they manage to manage to produce a proper ending eventually.

Are Westerns Ameritrash? I certainly think so, although I haven't seen a good AT game with the topic yet (don't know Gunslinger, so I have to wait for your column, Michael). On the other hand are westerns very often about the loner or westerner, who conquer the great American continent. How can this be made into a game, when it has been most of the time a solitary experience? Unless you want to play settling the West, but there are enough of those games already, I guess.

Probably should be reserved for another topic, but I find that a lot of Samurai and Westerns share a common theme(Magnificent Seven = Seven Samurai, Yojimbo = A Fistfull of Dollars).


I don't know, if you are aware of it, but Leone (dollar) and Sturges (Mag 7) made both the movies you mention on purpose as copies only in a Western setting. They saw the movies, being big fans of Kurosawa (who isn't?), and thought they would perfectly translate into the genre. Unfortunately Kurosawa wasn't asked for permission for a Yojimbo remake, which resulted in a lawsuit and Kurosawa getting 15% of the movie's receipts.

I'm a big fan of the European Westerns too...the Leone films, of course...but Sergio Corbucci's stuff is pretty god damned great- DJANGO and THE GREAT SILENCE are among my favorite westerns even though they've got that weird continental thing going on.

I agree, all of the Leone films are genius, even the "funny" ones with Terence Hill. The best all time western (movie?) would be "The Good, the Bad and the Ugly". Italian westerns have managed to breath some life into the old Western genre, when they arrived in a repetitious state. I love Corbucci Westerns as well, Django and Silence have become classic anti-heroes. But truely great are the movies with Klaus Kinski, a maniac in life, he managed to play extremely intense and crazy characters.

So, will Western make a big comeback? I don't think so. People have waited for it for such a long time. They thought it would come after the Unforgiven, but it didn't catch on. We've seen hyperrealistic Westerns already. My guess would be that we'll see some more Westerns from time to time, but not a full-fledged revival.

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15 Jan 2008 05:08 #704 by jur
I agree with Schlupp that the western won't make a comeback anytime soon. The western ethos of the lone gunman (no duty to retreat) just doesn't resonate with postmodernism.

Unless westerns can hitch on to new themes I see little life for them.

I think that the Great Western Civil War of Incorporation has ample thrilling history to provide ideas for movies. Apparently, Hollywood writers are unaware of it.

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15 Jan 2008 09:59 #715 by Michael Barnes
<i>Firefly love - something I will never understand in my lifetime.</i>

I watched it after much browbeating from a friend of mine (Will "TI3 God" Kenyon, actually)...

At first I thought "Hey, this is kinda cool- scifi western...good effects...interesting setting...decent story..." but then any time a character opened their mouth, the most stupid, asinine geek-pandering shit I've ever heard in my life fell out of their mouths. Whedon is a fucking hack who shouldn't have an audience at all beyond the 15-18 year old demographic. The only reason anyone likes him is because he writes "quirky", self-mocking, and supposedly ironic dialogue that reveals he has practically zero faith in or commitment to his characters.

Whedon's screenwriting operates on the same principle that drives MUNCHKIN and other Steve Jacksons games- appeal to the geek crowd with cute in-jokes and nerd cred references and no one will notice how utterly fucking shit the final product is.

Damn shame, because there is enough material for FIREFLY to be really great. It could have been great science fiction show and a great western at the same time but instead it made its play to be a "cult" thing and won. Which is why it was canceled, why no one cared about it beyond the niche geek audience Whedon will always be stuck writing for, and most people will never see it.

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15 Jan 2008 12:09 #743 by Kriz
I would love for Westerns to make a comeback. We are seeing the occasional well done, serious Western, being released...on top of the success of Deadwood...but if this will turn into a strong trend I have no idea.

No Country For Old Men was a great film...but I don't consider it a western. Although many Westerns have a theme of a lone outlaw, being hunted down...I don't know the Western genre takes place in the old west, and thats kind of the only common thread that holds them all together. No Country For Old Men is classic Coen Brothers...a regular guy gets involved in some sort of crime that gets way over his head. They almost have a genre all their own.

I can't stand John Wayne westerns but should really give "The Searchers" another shot...

I recently got turned on to a lesser known Leone film "Duck you Sucker", aka "Fistful of Dynamite". That film is amazing. It has some minor flaws here and there, but is definitely worth checking out.

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