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FFG drops Rackham

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17 Oct 2008 00:58 #13038 by metalface13
Fantasy Flight Games announced today that it will no longer be distributing Rackham's Confrontation or AT-43. http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/PDF/2008-press-release-rackham-dist.pdf

Well, that didn't last long.

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17 Oct 2008 01:41 #13039 by Count Orlok
Replied by Count Orlok on topic Re:FFG drops Rackham
Not profitable enough?

They have been taking in a lot of licenses with acquisitions such as Battlelore... hopefully everything is running smoothly, and this is a healthy sign.

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17 Oct 2008 10:39 - 17 Oct 2008 10:42 #13053 by Mr. White
Replied by Mr. White on topic Re:FFG drops Rackham
I don't think non-collectible pre-paints are ever going to work.

Collectible usually works short term for that Christmas morning feeling opening a new box, plus there's usually some secondary market value for rares and collectibles. These games usually don't last long though (**Unless these are tied to an rpg like D&D and SW**), but these games provide a fun quick fix for some.

Un-painted works long term because players invest a lot of time personalizing their armies. Having invested this time they create a community with other modelers. They've created a personal stake in the game. Plus, well painted/converted models can fetch a decent price.

Non-collectible pre-paints offer neither. No personal customization, surprises, or secondary market values. I don't see anything they offer besides playing a minis game without any 'up-front' work. But if this up-front work isn't done, there is lack of pride or investment, and the players might as well get out a boardgame with a lot less set-up time.

I've *never* seen non-collectible prepaints being played at any of our FLGS. It's usually heroclix (a little Monsterpocalypse now), WM, WFB, or 40k.

FFG really should have thought this through ahead of time. Look for Mutant Chronicles to be dropped next.
Last edit: 17 Oct 2008 10:42 by Mr. White.

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17 Oct 2008 10:52 #13057 by metalface13
Replied by metalface13 on topic Re:FFG drops Rackham
I actually find pre-painted noncollectable minis games to be quite appealing. I think it's just hard to go up against Games Workshop.

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17 Oct 2008 11:05 #13061 by Mr. White
Replied by Mr. White on topic Re:FFG drops Rackham

I actually find pre-painted noncollectable minis games to be quite appealing. I think it's just hard to go up against Games Workshop.


The idea of them sure.

However, I don't think it has anything to do with going up against GW. Look at Privateer Press. What about Reaper, or Rackham prior to pre-paints. How about Flames of War? There are markets, though smaller, for non-gw minis games. I stand by the nature of non-collectible pre-paints being their own downfall.


Are you and your friends playing any of them? Why or why not?

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17 Oct 2008 11:32 #13064 by metalface13
Replied by metalface13 on topic Re:FFG drops Rackham
No I don't play any minis games and neither do any of my friends. I did used to play some GW games when I was in high school though.

My problems with miniatures:
1. They are costly
2. They are time consuming with all the painting and whatnot
3. I'm not a very good painter
4. WAY too much rules arguing and bitterness can ensue.

Now they are great if you really like the hobby aspect, but I didn't like all of the bitter arguments over range, line of sight, cover, army composition, etc. that my friends and I used to get into.

AT-43 had me interested though because they were prepainted, but the cost and gameplay arguments still turned me off.

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17 Oct 2008 11:39 - 17 Oct 2008 12:36 #13065 by Mr. White
Replied by Mr. White on topic Re:FFG drops Rackham
I'm sorry, I meant do you play any of the non-collectible pre-paints. You did address that though.

Now they are great if you really like the hobby aspect, but I didn't like all of the bitter arguments over range, line of sight, cover, army composition, etc. that my friends and I used to get into.


I hear this a lot, but I've only experienced it in tourney play against strangers. My friends and I have always had a good time and are very forgiving with measurements or whatnot. I don't think this is a problem with minis games but group composition. If you're arguing over rules, you're not there in the spirit to 'game'.
Last edit: 17 Oct 2008 12:36 by Mr. White. Reason: lowercase

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17 Oct 2008 12:29 #13075 by Michael Barnes
Replied by Michael Barnes on topic Re:FFG drops Rackham
I think there is a fundamental problem with prepainted miniatures- the painting and assembly is a big part of the appeal. Add to that the fact that most miniatures games aren't really all that great on paper (WARMACHINE is probably the closest to a "great" miniatures game) and are pretty much variations on a couple of mechanical themes. HEROSCAPE gets by by being extremely accessible and it has a novelty factor. Some of the CMGs have other selling points such as a license or utility in RPG games. But plain old prepainted miniatures...I don't know, I think most of the games have kind of been not-so-great and without the modelling aspect, there's really no attraction. Board gamers are going to go more toward something like HEROSCAPE or TANNHAUSER, miniatures gamers are going to hit 40K, WFB, or WARMACHINE. The prepainted games sort of live in a limbo between them and none have seemed to get much traction.

There's always been that assumption that the GW games, for example, were first about the modelling, then about the game. And that's kind of true...the game just kind of gives you something to do with your hard work.

It's probably a good choice on FFG's part. I don't know anyone playing the games at all.

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17 Oct 2008 12:44 - 17 Oct 2008 12:52 #13076 by Mr. White
Replied by Mr. White on topic Re:FFG drops Rackham

It's probably a good choice on FFG's part. I don't know anyone playing the games at all.


True, but a bad choice to go down this path. All of those resources could have been better used elsewhere, plus gamers might start becoming gun shy on other FFG ventures due to this experience. Happens all the time to those companies that over reach their base. Look at Mongoose.

Going back to FFG pushing the TI3 universe, I think a TI minis game would be awesome. There's always been a void of a quality, traditional sci-fi minis game.

40K, AT-43, Mutant Chronicles, SST all have this pseudo WWI-II thing going on with their humans that bores me to death. I think having quality sculpts on exotic sci-fi races like those in TI would be a breath of much needed fresh air.

However, I don't propose FFG do it. It's not their niche. Bring on the TI boardgames!
Last edit: 17 Oct 2008 12:52 by Mr. White.

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17 Oct 2008 12:44 #13077 by Mr. Bistro
Replied by Mr. Bistro on topic Re:FFG drops Rackham
FFG didn't dump Rackham, Rackham dumped them. Supposedly they've got some kind of new 1st party distribution system worked out for North America.

And while I agree Mutant Chronicles will be going soon, I think it will be going because it's generally shit, and not because they're pre-paints.

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17 Oct 2008 12:58 - 17 Oct 2008 13:05 #13081 by Mr. White
Replied by Mr. White on topic Re:FFG drops Rackham
The one game shop in my area that invested in this still has all the FFG pre-paints they can't move. I hope Rakham doesn't expect retailers to go for this again. They should cut this and go back to their non-prepaints. Rakham made a name for themselves with the quality of their standard minis. I've seen lots of WFB armies at Indy GTs composed of mostly Confrontation minis. As well as lots of Rakham models converted for BB. I don't even know of anyone that's bought a pre-painted AT-43 or Confrontation model.

Heroscape is not seen as a minis game, but a boardgame in the circles I'm aware of. I'm sure it's due to the poor paint quality and lack of an hobby side. I guess that's why I've never considered heroclix a minis game either.
Last edit: 17 Oct 2008 13:05 by Mr. White.

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17 Oct 2008 13:13 #13082 by Mr. Bistro
Replied by Mr. Bistro on topic Re:FFG drops Rackham
Well I can only speak to Heroscape, but I do not see it as a board game. It's fully 3D in all respects, and utilizes miniatures concepts like LOS. It's a game where the size and shape of your figure directly impacts the game. If you tried to play the game with flat cardboard counters it wouldn't work. Also, I don't feel a game played exclusively with miniatures doesn't count as a miniatures game if it doesn't have a meta-game aspect. I love miniatures games (and do enjoy assembling models) but I quickly tired of painting figs and building terrain. I hate it. In any case Heroscape does have a meta-game - army builds, map and scenario designs, as well as custom figure builds are all discussed regularly by the fan base. How do these things not count because players aren't painting their own figs?

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17 Oct 2008 13:25 #13085 by Mr. White
Replied by Mr. White on topic Re:FFG drops Rackham
Good points. I've probably never seen it as a minis game due to simple elitism. I've always considered Battlemasters and dungeon crawlers as boardgames as well.

I'll need to think on this some more...

I'm sure Heroscape also gets by on the low (comparetively) cost. That and I think it's usually only one player that buys all the stuff. Again, much like a board game with one person providing the game. Unless, I'm mistaken and there are players that identify themselves as 'ork' players and buy any expansion with orks in it regardless if they own the game or not.

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17 Oct 2008 13:41 #13087 by Rliyen
Replied by Rliyen on topic Re:FFG drops Rackham
metalface13 wrote:

Fantasy Flight Games announced today that it will no longer be distributing Rackham's Confrontation or AT-43. http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/PDF/2008-press-release-rackham-dist.pdf

Well, that didn't last long.


Well, color me surprised! Rackham's got problems in France, I make mention of it on ToS and Mike Z says, "PISH POSH! EVERYTHING'S FINE!!! FFG IS A PARTNER!!!!"

Now this.

Can I say I was right?

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17 Oct 2008 13:42 #13088 by Rliyen
Replied by Rliyen on topic Re:FFG drops Rackham
metalface13 wrote:

I actually find pre-painted noncollectable minis games to be quite appealing. I think it's just hard to go up against Games Workshop.


QFT.

I'm a lazy bastard when it comes to painting. Every so often, I get the hair up my ass to paint. Nowadays, I just lie down until the feeling passes.

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