Dust Tactics & other Tile-Based Miniatures Games

I've been thinking about testing the waters with a miniatures game. But I'm not particularly interested in painting (initially), assembling, or measuring. Wrong genre? Yeah maybe.

I've tried Frontiers and wasn't wild about it. I really like Earth Reborn. I'm looking at Dust Tactics because there's a revised core set in the $50 range to see if I like the system. I like that there's tile based movement, a cool theme, and it looks to be pretty active. There are also rules for measure-y non-tile gaming if I decide to test those waters some more.

So how does it hold up? I've seen almost no discussion of it here, and I'm lazy about figuring out how to properly research miniatures games. Are there better or more active games I should look at instead in the sub-$100 price range for two people to get started?

I wouldn't call DT "Tile-based". It's got poster playmats just like Star Wars Miniatures, 'Clix, and a plethora of other games.

I prefer hex / space based moving but I've really come around to stick/template/ruler based movement. It's much more free, although it also causes more disagreements if you're WAY too anal about it.

I've played it, and I'd play Flames of War 100 of 100 times instead. DT is a good, solid game, but it lacks a lot of what I can only describe as "soul". Now, I've played twice and that was enough for me.

You could try Ex Illis for about 100 bucks, and it's really unique in that it uses a PC to calculate battles. It has some of the best miniatures I've ever seen, and that's saying some shit. It's also one of the single worst games I've ever played. I got it on review and it was the one game that I couldn't bring myself to play more than a couple of times. In retrospect, I wish I'd have kept it so I could have the minis.

Heroscape is still the best "in a complete box" skirmish game I've ever played. It has no flaws and is exceedingly well designed.

AT-43 is pretty fun. It's not for me, mainly because I prefer squad-size rather than batallion-size engagements.

Axis and Allies Miniatures is pretty decent but too much for my tastes. I really, REALLY like the War At Sea game although I don't own any...I've got 500$ in pewter ships in 1-6000 scale so buying these would just be daft.

If you're talking about Earth Reborn, then look at Tannhauser. It's really fun, very configurable, and is pretty inexpensive as a package.

Mongoose has a shit-ton of miniatures games, with Star Fleet-ACTA being the best IMO (I really dig STar Trek ship battles) and I use Wizkids ships because I don't have to plaint them.

They also have Starship Troopers and a REALLY great modern war game: Battlefield Evolution.
www.mongoosepublishing.com/miniatures/bfevo.html

Now is a GREAT time to get into BFE because it's going OOP. Prepaints, really nice ones, for 5 quid a box.

They also have Judge Dredd, which is another game based off of kind-of-similar rules. It's more expensive to get into, but you can use HeroClix Dredd stuff to avoid painting.

I've looked at Clix, but not a big superhero fan. The Star Trek Clix ships look pretty cool. Thought about picking up The Hobbit and LotR sets. I was thinking that even if the Trek Clix or LotR Clix suck we should still be able to use the minis for something.

And yeah, I've read your write-ups on the different Star Trek rulesets, so ACTA is on my radar too.

My recommendations are Heroscape and Dungeon Command. Both are pre-painted. DC is still very much active; 4 sets have been released and next month a 5th comes out. Initially buy-in is just over $50 for 2 boxes online.

I actually rather liked the old GW Lord of the Rings CMG a fair bit. It had a few things on the Clix games in that it better supported larger unit conflicts. It was basically a hex grid extension of Warhammer without getting overly fancy.

I wonder if you can find a used bundle of those?

That game was pretty slick, Frank. I especially liked the "hidden" and "unhidden" Bilbo.

I picked up a starter set for 10$ not too long ago. It was before Hobbit came out so I can't say whether or not that's going to affect the price. The "gold standard" for LOTR skirmish games is the GW game, but it's bloody expensive.
www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/landi...mp;_requestid=699823

WDan: Remember that Clix isn't JUST superheroes. It's got a lot of other stuff there too. Haloclix is pretty bad, thematically, and the Star Trek Tactics game sucks fat balls, but when you put the ships in with Star Trek Combat Sim it's bad ass. Even better with ACTA.

Horrorclix is really fun if you can get past the dials. I hate all clix games because of them, so I play the "dumb" version where I don't use the various powers. It's too much for my feeble mind to keep track of. Now, if you want to look at the pinnacle achievement of Clix "technology" then look at Mage Knight Dungeons. What a truly, absolutely brilliant game that one is. It's arguably the best dungeon crawl skirmish game out there, IMO. Better than Ravenloft for certain, and for me, that's saying some shit. The problem, again, is the "collectible" and the clix wheels. If it had static powers and cards to go with the figs like Heroscape, it would be unbeatable, I think. Especially for the price.

If you decide to try Dungeon Command, I have some extra sets here. I'd be happy to swap them out for something you've got on the shelf.

Well I got purchase-y and bought some Clix crap. The wife's a LotR fan and I like the setting too, so I picked up the LotR and Hobbit starter packs for pretty cheap. Picked up some Mechwarrior Age of Destruction stuff too to try out.

I figure if I like the Clix system there are people in my area that actually play it, which is a bonus. I decided to hold of on Dust Tactics because I don't think my wife will get into the theme and she's my primary gaming partner. Holding off on getting the Clix Star Trek stuff because there's supposed to be a new starter set coming out soon that I want to look into, if only for the minis.

Still open to suggestions. I'm on the fence about the Dungeon Command stuff... It looks cool, but it strikes me as a try before I buy type thing. Pete, my For Trade list on TOS is pretty up to date if you see anything on there you want.

Superfly, I want your Dungeon Commands too. Look at my wares. My tasty tasty wares.

Monsterpocalypse! We just had a thread about it and all. Beautiful prepainted miniatures, grid based paper maps, with even more prepainted buildings as terrain. Probably the deepest gameplay I've experienced in a miniatures game. Also their new non-collectible distribution is really great - a two player starter gives a complete game for two players and costs $35 online.

Heroscape - I feel like a heretic for saying this here, but Heroscape is pretty shallow. It's advantage is in the great variety of figures but they more or less just play the same, really, the variety is just a money trap more than anything else. But what is a real dealbreaker for me is the lack of theme - no real worldbuilding, no factions, no personality. Ugh. I have over $400 in this game and it's still not enough to give the game sustainable replayability.

Having said that, I'm also very much in the market for another pre-painted miniatures game. But, absolutely no painting, no "it will be fine if you use proxies". Good figures and worldbuilding is a must. Where does that leave me?

Stormcow wrote: Monsterpocalypse! We just had a thread about it and all. Beautiful prepainted miniatures, grid based paper maps, with even more prepainted buildings as terrain. Probably the deepest gameplay I've experienced in a miniatures game. Also their new non-collectible distribution is really great - a two player starter gives a complete game for two players and costs $35 online.

I was looking at the Monsterpocalypse starter, but I couldn't sell my wife on the theme. Surprisingly she actually likes Battletech, at least enough to try Mechwarrior Age of Destruction. Maybe if she likes the minis style games we'll try MonPoc.

Stormcow wrote: Heroscape - I feel like a heretic for saying this here, but Heroscape is pretty shallow. It's advantage is in the great variety of figures but they more or less just play the same, really, the variety is just a money trap more than anything else. But what is a real dealbreaker for me is the lack of theme - no real worldbuilding, no factions, no personality. Ugh. I have over $400 in this game and it's still not enough to give the game sustainable replayability.

I've looked at Heroscape quite a bit, and I'm not sure I really get the appeal. It kind of looks like a combination of Battlemasters and LEGO to me. Haven't played it though, so I could be way off-base.

Stormcow wrote: Heroscape - I feel like a heretic for saying this here, but Heroscape is pretty shallow. It's advantage is in the great variety of figures but they more or less just play the same, really, the variety is just a money trap more than anything else. But what is a real dealbreaker for me is the lack of theme - no real worldbuilding, no factions, no personality. Ugh. I have over $400 in this game and it's still not enough to give the game sustainable replayability.

You're not a heretic, you're simply abysmally wrong. "Shallow" is incomprehensible inaccurate. There's over 1,000 threads at Heroscapers designated for army building (deck building) and another 2,000 or so for map design.

You may not dig it, but it's absolutely not shallow. And "worldbuilding"? I mean, you're comparing putting down a paper mat and putting a bunch of samey buildings on it with creating a map, from scratch, with multiple levels?


is less "worldbuilding" than THIS...

???

Yeah, no.

SuperflyTNT wrote: I mean, you're comparing putting down a paper mat and putting a bunch of samey buildings on it with creating a map, from scratch, with multiple levels?

What's the cost barrier to entry though? There looks to be a lot more money in the Heroscape pic you posted than the MonPoc one. The Monsterpocalypse starter set looks like a pretty decent deal to test the waters. Are there still any Heroscape starter sets around at a decent price that really give you a good feel for the game?

There are other factors that are keeping me away from Heroscape. I mean, I love LEGO and I think building big panoramic landscapes would be almost as much fun as playing the game, but in my apartment I haven't got anywhere to store that shit. Paper maps are actually pretty convenient.

I'm just giving Stormy some shit.

But let me address some points: In Heroscape there are indeed factions, to begin with, and within factions there's subfactions. Further, the "gameplay is the same" only if you want it to be. The last master set contains campaign play and the tournament scene has developed over the years to contain some very interesting objective-based scenarios. Ther were something like 12 unique events at Gencon last year and I've personLly played probably 20 different local events, many of which were not "hockey fight" style deathmatches.

I will retract one statement...Heroscape does have one big flaw...if you get a lot of sets it does take up some big time shelf space.

But seriously, if you buy one of each master set and maybe 10 small expansions it allows huge maps and takes up the same space as 2 FFG coffin boxes. It's people Plano boxing the shit out of the components that takes up the big space.

For 150$ or so (assuming you get lots on Ebay like I did) you can have years of gaming. MonPoc is certainly a viable option and may be cheaper, but from my limited experience it's not superior to Heroscape. I could be wrong.

Yeah, well I think you didn't really get to play the full game of Monpoc with buildings and all, if I understand correctly. That would certainly color your experience.

When it comes to map modularity and customizing scenarios, no question there, Heroscape has a lot of options to work with, and a lot of fanmade work to fulfill that potential. On the other hand, all these nice things cost you, both in money terms and in setup time. OMG, the setup time by itself can keep Heroscape off my table.

What I mean by "worldbuilding" though is something else, a combination of backstory, character fluff, and a unified style that identifies each faction. It's important (to me at least) that I can look at a miniature and say, alright this guy is working for Team X. In Heroscape you have vikings and WWII soldiers and futuristic robots and ice dragons and they are under the same faction! It seriously bugs me man.