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Sell me on Warmachine

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25 May 2014 13:57 #178873 by hotseatgames
Two of my boardgame friends play Warmachine a lot; I remember they brought it over one time so I could see it, and maybe it was how it was presented, or an off-night, but I recall there being a lot of down time.

Now they want me to get into it. I see there is a 2 player battle box that gets you a nice starting army for 2 factions. I also see you can get starter boxes for at least 4 of the 6 factions, although it seems that the contents of these boxes may not really get you what you need.

Can anyone bullet point me the various strengths / weaknesses / themes of the 6 factions? Has anyone personally dealt with the starter sets?

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25 May 2014 16:47 #178878 by SuperflyPete
I wasn't big on it. I've only played it twice and both times it seemed to be "Warhammer with a twist". Nothing really new or interesting there, from what I learned.

I played some sort of robotic faction, and it didn't seem all that different from the monstery-type guys my buddies played.

That's all I know. I'd rather play something with story.

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25 May 2014 17:18 #178883 by Josh Look
Replied by Josh Look on topic Re: Sell me on Warmachine
I was going to come up with something sharp and snappy to explain how wrong Pete is on this, but I think the fact that he likes Stone Age speaks for itself. It's _nothing_ like Warhammer, and while I don't keep up with minis games anymore, there wasn't anything like it on the market when it came out. I wrote a review of the MkII rules a couple years ago. I'm sure it's a bit out of date, but I still stand by the basic gist of it.

The factions play COMPLETELY different, as do the two games. If you're the type of board gamer where a game will sink or swim by the tough decisions you make, then Warmachine is the game for you.

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25 May 2014 18:06 #178885 by VonTush
Replied by VonTush on topic Re: Sell me on Warmachine
When the game first came out I bought some of the Cryx models. What really drew me to the game was that it had the appearance of low model counts with just a few Jacks per side. Then it started to shift towards troops...Then I dropped.

From that point on they've done the MkII rules and in talking with a shop owner the other day it sounded like it has moved backs towards a Jack-centric feel...But I'm more in a minis-on-a-board type games right now.

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25 May 2014 18:14 - 25 May 2014 18:16 #178886 by Josh Look
Replied by Josh Look on topic Re: Sell me on Warmachine

VonTush wrote: When the game first came out I bought some of the Cryx models. What really drew me to the game was that it had the appearance of low model counts with just a few Jacks per side. Then it started to shift towards troops...Then I dropped.

From that point on they've done the MkII rules and in talking with a shop owner the other day it sounded like it has moved backs towards a Jack-centric feel...But I'm more in a minis-on-a-board type games right now.


I can attest to that. They really upped the points cost on troops, and the in the average game, you'll probably only want to field one unit, if that. They also gave the Casters free points to spend exclusively on jacks. The way it works out it that you can pretty much field a medium jack for free.

I _loved_ playing with just the battlebox models. That's another huge difference against Warhammer...the starter set really is a complete, playable game, not just, "Here's a small dent in what you're going to need."
Last edit: 25 May 2014 18:16 by Josh Look.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Gary Sax, VonTush

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25 May 2014 20:55 - 25 May 2014 20:57 #178889 by Attrition
Replied by Attrition on topic Re: Sell me on Warmachine
As we all know, great minis games need 3 things: high-quality miniatures, captivating background/aesthetics, and a tight ruleset that gets you into the scrum without too many fiddly bits along the way. I'd give Warmachine a mixed review. Privateer Press makes decent metal miniatures but many of the plastics are pretty sloppy; I'd say they're second tier in this category. Whether the aesthetic design of the miniatures speaks to you is of course something only you can answer; I find them pretty goofy and uninspiring. The ruleset is where Warmachine/Hordes really picks up some points. The game is lean and you won't need to roll dice to resolve disputes since the rules are unambiguous and comprehensive. However, this is still an "I go, you go" sort of game, so the downtime between turns you mentioned certainly can be an issue.

For me the bottom line is that WHFB and 40K have much nicer minis, but the games are so ponderous at this point that I'd rather play Warmachine/Hordes even though I find the minis derpy and uninteresting.

Have you looked at Malifaux? I find it to be the best of the lot and the new edition rules are clear and easy to get into. It also has an alternating activation system so there's very little downtime. The new plastic minis they're bringing out are really nice and you need far fewer of them to play a full game compared to standard sized forces in Warmachine.
Last edit: 25 May 2014 20:57 by Attrition.

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25 May 2014 21:02 - 25 May 2014 21:09 #178890 by Sevej
Replied by Sevej on topic Re: Sell me on Warmachine
I even dislike it more than Warhammer.

The thing is, I recently drift more toward games with great core gameplay.

Warmachine core gameplay is so-so. What makes it "shine" is the special rules... dozens of special rules & abilities, and the combo you can create from different special rules within a model or between models. This makes the game quite restricting when creating list, as unit A works best with unit C, unit B can support D, blah blah.

Strip the "special rules" and all you've got is basic miniatures game with hit boxes.

But if that what makes you roll, I think you'll like it.

If you're a gamer, then yeah it's cheaper than 40k. If you're a modeller... err... it's actually more expensive.

Now regarding the factions, I only had short familiarity with 4 of them (the originals), and it's a long time ago, so things might have changed.
Cygnar: Warjack-centered, shooting army
Khador: Warjack-centered, melee army
Cryx: Unit-centered (as in... horde), melee army
Menoth: Shooting army, with funky support stuff

If I'm going into miniature games for the gameplay right now, I'd go with Infinity. MOST expensive price/model, but really good minis. Excellent core gameplay, available-to-all special abilities. And most importantly it avoids having you lining up troop on your side like Napoleonic or ACW armies when the game begins (the thing I hate most from mainstream miniature gaming).

www.belloflostsouls.net/2014/05/infinity...sa-vs-haqq-must.html
Last edit: 25 May 2014 21:09 by Sevej.

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25 May 2014 21:17 #178891 by hotseatgames
Thanks for the info everyone! As for games that aren't Warmachine... well my friends play Warmachine so it's probably that or nothing.

I may grab the 2 player battle box. We'll see.

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25 May 2014 21:21 - 25 May 2014 21:24 #178892 by Josh Look
Replied by Josh Look on topic Re: Sell me on Warmachine
What your friends play pretty much determines what you play when it comes to minis, so I think these recommendations are useless. Also, fuck those games.

I'd actually suggest a one army battlebox. The learning curve is crazy on this game, so pick a faction that sounds cool and take the time to learn it. The one army boxes do give you what you need to get started, I wouldn't recommend starting with much more.
Last edit: 25 May 2014 21:24 by Josh Look.
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25 May 2014 23:03 #178894 by Michael Barnes
I played Khador for about two years and had a huge army that got lost along with the theft of my entire game store. I had pretty much everything up through 2006. All painted in an alternate Soviet army color scheme using Flames of War paints. I had a couple of favorite lists, one jack-heavy, one troops, and one "Russian mythology" group focused on Baba Yaga.

It is (or was) really fun. It is nothing like Warhammer in any way other than being another game where you move miniatures around and roll dice. Some elements of it are more like Battletech, and there is some cool detail I how the warjacks fight. The casters add a whole different angle to it too, and it is SUPER combo-riffic...mixing the right caster, jacks and troops can do all kinds of neat things.

There are tons of keywords, abilities and so forth so as others have mentioned there is definitely a learning curve.

Khador is by far the best/coolest group...the ersatz Russian thing rules. Cryx is pretty cool. Memnoth is your paladin/ cleric/religious fanatic group and they've got some cool stuff. Cygnar is awful, I hated all of their stuff.

It is not cheap, the jacks are very expensive. They also tend to require extra modeling so have the green stuff and pin vise ready. I never saw any of their plastics.
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26 May 2014 08:32 #178900 by Brewmiester
I have a LOT of Khador as well but I wanted to put in a word for my current favorite faction, the Mercs. No battleboxes available but they do have battlebox equivalents. An underdog faction to be sure but a lot of fun combos available.

Just be prepared that if your friends have been playing a long time you will take a beating in unexpected ways for quite a long time :)

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26 May 2014 09:40 #178904 by Mr. White
Replied by Mr. White on topic Re: Sell me on Warmachine
I dabbled in the Privateer Press games with Cryx (warmachine) and Circle Oboros (Hordes), but I had one big issue with them at the time.

In Warhammer, there are rules for creating your own heroes and generals. You can select their skills, purchase their equipment, etc. As a hobbyist, this made the modeling/painting portion fun as I was creating a faction for a character of my own creation in the Warhammer universe. It allows for a bit of role-playing and creativity.

In Warmachine, all of the characters are named, so there's no customization of individuals at all. Painting units under this restriction felt like a chore. If the characters are all pre-built and tied so strongly to the fluff, I'd prefer the game to just be pre-painted, since the players don't have much say regardless. Cryx, is Cryx, is Cryx. No creating some rogue khador necromancer who lives on the boarder of Khador and has cryx units that are made up of undead khador models. You play only with the characters in the fluff.

So, in that regard, I didn't care for the game at all. It's no different than simply painting up a napoleonics army where you aren't going to go wild on the colors or theme there either. In both cases the players are too tied to the histories and background of the games.

To be fair, this could have changed in MKII (I got out prior to that). I also saw the rise of the units and how the game went from a few models to spiraling into Warhammer levels of models. Again, this could all be different now.

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26 May 2014 11:58 #178912 by engelstein
Warmachine has some really nice game features, like the focus system, and warcaster feats. Plus the ability to assassinate the enemy caster makes it tense down to the end, whereas I find that 40K often devolves into an attrition grind-fest.

But before investing in the starter set, I would strongly suggest trying a game with your friends' models. Or stores often have models you can use. That should give you an excellent idea of whether you'll like it or not before investing money and time.

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26 May 2014 19:32 #178936 by Ancient_of_MuMu
The main thing about Warmachine over Warhammer is that there are a lot more in game decisions to be made. Too often with Warhammer you feel like everything is decided by army selection and deployment and then you just spend 2 hours after that point finding out the result.

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27 May 2014 05:11 #178960 by Sevej
Replied by Sevej on topic Re: Sell me on Warmachine
@Jeff White: That's the main reason I'm buying 4 boxes of 40k plastic crack recently. I really enjoy putting together plastic kits and make it mine!

It's been long for me that if it's miniatures... then it's mostly collecting and the creative aspect. If I want a game I'd rather have board games or turn on my laptop.

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