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term for Miniature Games that use a grid/mapsheet
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- ChristopherMD
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Most template based games I've played(e.g. Space Hulk, Legions of Steel) have "table top" rules. And the distinguishing marks are the "Close Quarters Combat" rules, that differ a bit from the table top rules.
Then you get a game like Silent Death that is grid based, but really what is the difference between static measuring grid and ruler based measuring? Kind of murky waters there.
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LvT
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Blood Bowl, Space Hulk, etc.
Are there any miniatures games that utilize a map or grid but otherwise utilize miniatures concepts such as real line of sight?
I like to call games like Blood Bowl "Hobby Board Games" since you'll have to put them together and possibly paint them. Of course, hobby board gaming is confusing since a lot of people call games that you can't find at Mass Market chains to be hobby board games.
Usually I say something like a "hobby boardgame, you know - like blood bowl" or a "Games Workshop styled Hobby Boardgame."
If you use a map or grid and move pieces on it then i'd say it's a board game.
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Are there any miniatures games that utilize a map or grid but otherwise utilize miniatures concepts such as real line of sight?
Star Wars Miniatures, for one. You do need to check for line of sight and there are terrain effects determined by border colors on the tiles. It can't really be called a board game.
I usually differentiate miniature-based games based on the gameplay. Blood Bowl would be a miniatures-based board game. SW Minis is a a miniatures-based skirmish game. Flames of War or Warhammer 40K is a miniatures-based war game. It's clumsy, but it gives a better idea of what type of game you're talking about, especially with the numerous types of miniatures around.
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Mage Knight was especially stupid about this last point--it tried the 'ruler' based free-form play, but you had to constantly pick up your guys and spin their clix dials. Better make sure to put them down *exactly* where they were....
For me, if I see a ruler with a game, I usually take a pass.
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- Michael Barnes
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When I played CONFRONTATION and WARMACHINE, the whole time I wished that they were grid based. If they were, I might still be willing to play them today.
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- ChristopherMD
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When you play on an open board, a player has the opportunity to take a bunch of unreal things (models, scenery...etc.) and create a situation which would reflect what would really be happening with the boots on the ground. Players get to roleplay the hand of god or the force's supreme commander. Or on a more limited scope provide greater detail to visualize what just happened when a model makes a very difficult roll to pull off a one in a million shot. There is also a lot more description via models and scenery to add "character" to the game than the same copy and pasted grouping of trees repeated over and over to form the "woods" like on paper maps.
For example in one of the Necromunda campaigns I was playing back in HS, one of the pieces of scenery was a whorehouse. On the top of the building was a sign displaying the name of said house. And behind the sign was a nice spot for someone to hang out and snipe. So I had a greater visual impact seeing my VanSaar Heavy Ganger shooting his missle launcher from behind the whorehouse sign than in a hex that said "building - here are the modifiers" or something like that. So the miniture game medium offered more in the way of roleplaying, or setting the scene for what the character was doing, than a paper map with generic terrian would offer.
Personally for me, when I'm playing a wargame on a hex/square map, I feel like a general sitting in the back lines in a tent pushing little cubes around a table far away from the action, when I'm playing a miniature game I feel more like I'm the general in the front lines of the battle telling troops where and when to move.
Yes there are problems when you get pricks arguing over 1/16 of an inch, but played against a reasonable person I find no other game genere as satisfiying to play because of the greater sense of realism and narrative that is offered...These are my thoughts at least.
LvT
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In Heroscape, LOS is done by the models(As I recall!), even though the map is gridded out, so it might be an actual hybrid.
Or maybe I'm wrong I haven't played Hs in a while.
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Lagduf wrote:
Are there any miniatures games that utilize a map or grid but otherwise utilize miniatures concepts such as real line of sight?
Star Wars Miniatures, for one. You do need to check for line of sight and there are terrain effects determined by border colors on the tiles. It can't really be called a board game.
I usually differentiate miniature-based games based on the gameplay. Blood Bowl would be a miniatures-based board game. SW Minis is a a miniatures-based skirmish game. Flames of War or Warhammer 40K is a miniatures-based war game. It's clumsy, but it gives a better idea of what type of game you're talking about, especially with the numerous types of miniatures around.
That uses an abstracted form of lines of sight.
I was talking about the kind of line of sight where you get at the miniatures perspective to look at what he can see.
As was said above Heroscape is an example of a game using real/true line of sight but also having a hex based movement.
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Out of curiosity, what would Car Wars be considered? Board game? RPG?
More boardgame than RPG. Also the most recent version of the rules does away with the grid.
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