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term for Miniature Games that use a grid/mapsheet

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02 Feb 2009 11:36 #19445 by sirkerry
Is there a commonly used term to denote miniature games that use a grid (either square or hex) or other mapsheet?

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02 Feb 2009 11:53 #19451 by ChristopherMD

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02 Feb 2009 12:02 #19455 by Chapel
I always heard it's either a miniature based board game or a table top game. But no real terms I've ever heard.

Most template based games I've played(e.g. Space Hulk, Legions of Steel) have "table top" rules. And the distinguishing marks are the "Close Quarters Combat" rules, that differ a bit from the table top rules.

Then you get a game like Silent Death that is grid based, but really what is the difference between static measuring grid and ruler based measuring? Kind of murky waters there.

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02 Feb 2009 12:14 #19457 by VonTush
None that I'm aware of. Miniature games don't have many subgroups outside of grouping them together by scale or theme.

LvT

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02 Feb 2009 12:41 #19463 by Lagduf
I'd call them a board game.

Blood Bowl, Space Hulk, etc.

Are there any miniatures games that utilize a map or grid but otherwise utilize miniatures concepts such as real line of sight?

I like to call games like Blood Bowl "Hobby Board Games" since you'll have to put them together and possibly paint them. Of course, hobby board gaming is confusing since a lot of people call games that you can't find at Mass Market chains to be hobby board games.

Usually I say something like a "hobby boardgame, you know - like blood bowl" or a "Games Workshop styled Hobby Boardgame."

If you use a map or grid and move pieces on it then i'd say it's a board game.

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02 Feb 2009 13:19 #19470 by Aarontu
If you say "Tactical minis board game", most people would know what you're talking about.

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02 Feb 2009 14:38 #19493 by jhuntin1
Lagduf wrote:

Are there any miniatures games that utilize a map or grid but otherwise utilize miniatures concepts such as real line of sight?


Star Wars Miniatures, for one. You do need to check for line of sight and there are terrain effects determined by border colors on the tiles. It can't really be called a board game.

I usually differentiate miniature-based games based on the gameplay. Blood Bowl would be a miniatures-based board game. SW Minis is a a miniatures-based skirmish game. Flames of War or Warhammer 40K is a miniatures-based war game. It's clumsy, but it gives a better idea of what type of game you're talking about, especially with the numerous types of miniatures around.

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02 Feb 2009 14:43 #19494 by Ken B.
I prefer minis games with grid maps. No arguing over range, or movement, and no worries about accidentally nuding a piece out of place, or picking a unit up and then not placing it exactly where it was.

Mage Knight was especially stupid about this last point--it tried the 'ruler' based free-form play, but you had to constantly pick up your guys and spin their clix dials. Better make sure to put them down *exactly* where they were....


For me, if I see a ruler with a game, I usually take a pass.

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02 Feb 2009 14:50 #19496 by Michael Barnes
Yeah, the ruler sucks. I'm not really sure why people like it, I think the whole "freedom of movement" thing is actually an illusion. It's more gamey than having grid-based movement. "Oh look, I'm 1/16th of an inch out of range!" Plus, it doesn't add any realism whatsoever, it just creates headaches and rules issues. What a fucking hassle to have a tape measure out during a game.

When I played CONFRONTATION and WARMACHINE, the whole time I wished that they were grid based. If they were, I might still be willing to play them today.

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02 Feb 2009 14:57 #19497 by ChristopherMD
I wouldn't want to play Wings Of War: Miniatures on a grid. Just doesn't seem right to have airplanes dogfighting that way. Anything else I'd probably prefer a grid though.

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02 Feb 2009 15:28 #19508 by VonTush
Regarding comments made asking why mini games aren't all played on a grid/board: This calls back to a conversation I was having with a buddy of mine one night...To me, miniature gaming is a very light form of roleplaying.

When you play on an open board, a player has the opportunity to take a bunch of unreal things (models, scenery...etc.) and create a situation which would reflect what would really be happening with the boots on the ground. Players get to roleplay the hand of god or the force's supreme commander. Or on a more limited scope provide greater detail to visualize what just happened when a model makes a very difficult roll to pull off a one in a million shot. There is also a lot more description via models and scenery to add "character" to the game than the same copy and pasted grouping of trees repeated over and over to form the "woods" like on paper maps.

For example in one of the Necromunda campaigns I was playing back in HS, one of the pieces of scenery was a whorehouse. On the top of the building was a sign displaying the name of said house. And behind the sign was a nice spot for someone to hang out and snipe. So I had a greater visual impact seeing my VanSaar Heavy Ganger shooting his missle launcher from behind the whorehouse sign than in a hex that said "building - here are the modifiers" or something like that. So the miniture game medium offered more in the way of roleplaying, or setting the scene for what the character was doing, than a paper map with generic terrian would offer.

Personally for me, when I'm playing a wargame on a hex/square map, I feel like a general sitting in the back lines in a tent pushing little cubes around a table far away from the action, when I'm playing a miniature game I feel more like I'm the general in the front lines of the battle telling troops where and when to move.

Yes there are problems when you get pricks arguing over 1/16 of an inch, but played against a reasonable person I find no other game genere as satisfiying to play because of the greater sense of realism and narrative that is offered...These are my thoughts at least.

LvT

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02 Feb 2009 16:10 #19515 by username
Seems like the subtle difference is in Star wars/dnd minis type games LOS is done by the squares. Essentially it is just a real expensive customisable board game.

In Heroscape, LOS is done by the models(As I recall!), even though the map is gridded out, so it might be an actual hybrid.

Or maybe I'm wrong I haven't played Hs in a while.

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02 Feb 2009 20:28 - 02 Feb 2009 20:31 #19561 by Lagduf
jhuntin1 wrote:

Lagduf wrote:

Are there any miniatures games that utilize a map or grid but otherwise utilize miniatures concepts such as real line of sight?


Star Wars Miniatures, for one. You do need to check for line of sight and there are terrain effects determined by border colors on the tiles. It can't really be called a board game.

I usually differentiate miniature-based games based on the gameplay. Blood Bowl would be a miniatures-based board game. SW Minis is a a miniatures-based skirmish game. Flames of War or Warhammer 40K is a miniatures-based war game. It's clumsy, but it gives a better idea of what type of game you're talking about, especially with the numerous types of miniatures around.


That uses an abstracted form of lines of sight.

I was talking about the kind of line of sight where you get at the miniatures perspective to look at what he can see.

As was said above Heroscape is an example of a game using real/true line of sight but also having a hex based movement.
Last edit: 02 Feb 2009 20:31 by Lagduf.

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02 Feb 2009 20:40 #19563 by Dogmatix
Out of curiosity, what would Car Wars be considered? Board game? RPG?

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02 Feb 2009 22:13 #19566 by sirkerry
Dogmatix wrote:

Out of curiosity, what would Car Wars be considered? Board game? RPG?


More boardgame than RPG. Also the most recent version of the rules does away with the grid.

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