term for Miniature Games that use a grid/mapsheet

Ken B. wrote:

I prefer minis games with grid maps. No arguing over range, or movement, and no worries about accidentally nuding a piece out of place, or picking a unit up and then not placing it exactly where it was.

Yeah, same here. I also like my figures pre-painted and could care less if they're plastic or metal.

Michael Barnes wrote:

When I played CONFRONTATION and WARMACHINE, the whole time I wished that they were grid based. If they were, I might still be willing to play them today.

Have you tried Monsterpocalypse yet? It uses a variation of the Warmachine mechanics and is grid based. I'm not real fond of the collectible part of the game but I really like the figures being pre-painted.

How about the term "Tactical Skirmish Game" for games that use miniature figures and some form of gridded (squares, hexes, circles) mapsheet instead of terrain?

Lagduf wrote:

That uses an abstracted form of lines of sight.

I was talking about the kind of line of sight where you get at the miniatures perspective to look at what he can see.

As was said above Heroscape is an example of a game using real/true line of sight but also having a hex based movement.

See I just find the whole bend down and check out the mini's eye view a real pain in the butt and is too subjective. Plus, how do you get to see what his LOS is if the mini is up against a build or a cliff or some other surface blocking you from getting into that position. It is all WAY too fiddly and ridiculous.

Now, I'd be all for a hex-based miniatures game because I love the minis (though I can't paint), I love the backstories and themes and putting together your own army. It's the minis LOS rules I have a problem with.

If you plan to be anal about it, you can get a laser pointer, but most people I know who play miniatures games just look at the board, say "I think he has line of sight" or "I don't think I have LOS" and thats the end of the discussion. Occasionally you will get an "are you sure" but for the most part it isn't really a big deal.

hancock.tom wrote:

If you plan to be anal about it, you can get a laser pointer, but most people I know who play miniatures games just look at the board, say "I think he has line of sight" or "I don't think I have LOS" and thats the end of the discussion. Occasionally you will get an "are you sure" but for the most part it isn't really a big deal.

That is the same thing we do in Descent...no big deal.

The amount of room for error in tabletop miniatures games for me makes them unplayable at anything but a casual level.

I'd probably never enter a tournament in say 40k beyond what we have at my FLGS. Miniatures games feel really gamey to me when people are completely anal. Plus it seems GW's rulesets and codexes often leave room for plenty of potential cheesey and abusive army lists.

I'd much prefer a casual, FUN, tabletop game. That way getting the measuring and LOS doesn't have to be 100% dead on accurate.

I don't know how people can play these games competitively against complete strangers.

Lagduf wrote:

I'd much prefer a casual, FUN, tabletop game. That way getting the measuring and LOS doesn't have to be 100% dead on accurate.

That's why I loved playing LotR:TMG when I finally saw it (as it was being 'fire-saled' and therefore cheap) - hex map, simple but clever rules, prepainted figures that look pretty good (I'm not a miniatures person so I'm probably satisfied here easier than others) - with the result that my young lad, seven at the time, was able to play against me with only a little bit of help.

Heroscape seems to do the LoS thing right, either you see it or you dont. No partial cover or shades of gray....well, unless all you see an area on the figure that is shaded gray on the army card.....fuck.....

Ok, maybe competition-level minis games are unwieldy......

Ha...Forgot about this topic from a while back.

Re-reading some things, all I have to say is all you people who say that the metagame is important in AT games (being interaction at the table) just do not appreciate the metagame that dealing with LoS and open movement is and offers. You learn more about the person you're gaming with (not only as a gamer but also on a personal level) quicker in miniature games than any other genre.

LvT

Sorry for the thread necromancy but I have been thinking a bit about grid based miniature games over the last couple of days with Space Hulk coming out soon.

I think that a grid based game is far superior to a free-flowing game, due to LOS and 1/16" measurements tending to bring out the worst in people (as well as surfing, nudging, etc). The fact that there is now an official GW branded laser pointer is a sign of something going horribly wrong in the latest edition of 40K. However I don't know if there is a perfect grid based skirmish style grid based game out there to scratch the miniature gaming itch.

What grid based miniature games are there? Ones mentioned here so far are:
Blood Bowl
Space Hulk
Heroscape
Monsterpocalypse (probably the closest to what I desire in a miniature game but the distribution model is seriously killing it)
Legions of Steel
Star Wars Miniatures
LotR:TMG

D&D minis is also grid based.
Mage Knight Dungeons too.

I dig em both quite a bit.

Is Battletech hex based?

Yes it is.

There's also Death in the Dark, which is very close to what you'd expect to find in a 40k-style miniatures game rules-wise. I've only played around with it solo, it's definitely odd, but I've had fun with it.

Firefight is another one. It's OoP, but you can get it for $5 pretty easily. The minis for it were discontinued, but it looks like Alternative Armies is bringing some of them back along with the game. I really like it. You have four modular grids that you move chits on which represent your different squads, and while you're trying to get to your objective, the bad guy can play traps and ambushes on you in the form of cards. Once you encounter a firefight, you put down these different zoomed-in boards to match the terrain in the space you're in and the ones surrounding it, then you play out a little tactical skirmish. The rules for that part are pretty cool, with an almost War of the Ring-like action dice system. Also, it's got legit solo rules.

The only other one I can think of off the top of my head is Nin-Gonost, which is a cross between hardcore minis wargame and D&D-style combat. The game's kind of a disaster in a lot of ways, but everyone I've introduced it to has enjoyed it.

Hybrid from Rackham is grid based. Also Heroclix/Magekight, Siege of the Citadel, The Mutant Chronicles CMG, the D&D boardgame, the Wow minis game ( I think).