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Let's Talk DreadBall

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02 Aug 2016 12:49 - 02 Aug 2016 13:35 #231249 by Mr. White
A few people expressed some interest in the current DB2 KS Campaign over in the KS thread, but since Mantic just released a 'Team Guide' I figure we could move out any questions into its own thread.

manticblog.com/2016/08/02/dreadball-teams-spotters-guide/

The above gives a good, general idea on what the teams are about, but if anyone has any specific questions, I can try to address them. Renowned F:ATtie Drewcula has far more experience than I and can be another great source.

Oh, if anyone is on the fence you can pledge for $1 and this'll get you email updates and such. There's no pledge level for it, but you can enter in for a buck, stick around for a few days and see if it's worthwhile. There's also rewards for backer count so you'll be increasing the odds of getting more stuff should you decide to stick around. Mantic also recently dumped a lot of content into their pledge levels beyond what was unlocked in SGs.

I guess this turned into a part advert for DB2, but seriously, if anyone has any specifics about the game I'd like to try and help.
Last edit: 02 Aug 2016 13:35 by Mr. White.
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02 Aug 2016 21:38 #231270 by Mr. White
Replied by Mr. White on topic Let's Talk DreadBall
...or let's not...

I'm sitting over here like the lonely Magic player at the game store with all his decks laid out waiting for someone to show interest.

This is sad.

Well, except...

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02 Aug 2016 21:43 #231272 by Gary Sax
Replied by Gary Sax on topic Let's Talk DreadBall
I know the feeling. Lots of my game threads turn out this way. ;)

I enjoyed your last post, read up on all the teams.
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02 Aug 2016 23:45 #231275 by Space Ghost
Replied by Space Ghost on topic Let's Talk DreadBall
I like reading the posts -- I think that I just have to decide whether to pull the trigger or not. Probably leaning towards it. Then, I have to decide if I want the entire consulting payment to go to Dreadball. I'm such a damn sucker for having all of a game that I am oddly seduced by getting all of the teams.

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02 Aug 2016 23:49 #231277 by metalface13
Replied by metalface13 on topic Let's Talk DreadBall

Space Ghost wrote: I like reading the posts -- I think that I just have to decide whether to pull the trigger or not. Probably leaning towards it. Then, I have to decide if I want the entire consulting payment to go to Dreadball. I'm such a damn sucker for having all of a game that I am oddly seduced by getting all of the teams.


There's almost 30 teams though ... although much cheaper than Blood Bowl teams ... but still 30 factions.

I wish I had more to say on Dreadball but I've never played and Mantic is just in beta testing on the rules too ...
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03 Aug 2016 00:51 - 03 Aug 2016 00:52 #231279 by Space Ghost
Replied by Space Ghost on topic Let's Talk DreadBall
A lot of teams, but it seems that you could almost structure it to be parallel to an NFL season. You could set a league up where you split the teams into two conferences and not have cross conference games (kind of like old school baseball). Then, each player could play a team in each conference, culminating in one huge championship game. I find it unlikely the same person would win each conference.

I am hoping for 8 to 10 players, so that would support a 16 to 20 team league.....I don't know. Could be one of those "eyes bigger than my stomach" situations.

EDIT: How iffy are the rules? I thought they were fairly well established.
Last edit: 03 Aug 2016 00:52 by Space Ghost.

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03 Aug 2016 01:42 #231280 by Michael Barnes
Replied by Michael Barnes on topic Let's Talk DreadBall
Will this game be the last one I ever need to purchase?

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03 Aug 2016 07:28 #231282 by Mr. White
Replied by Mr. White on topic Let's Talk DreadBall

Space Ghost wrote: AEDIT: How iffy are the rules? I thought they were fairly well established.


They are. The core mechanics and concepts are all in place 1e. 2e is mainly just readdressing team balance and tweaking a few ideas here and there. This isn't a BB 2nd to 3rd situation, but more like how we currently use a revised 3rd ruleset for BB now. Same sort of deal.

Have confidence.

@Barnes - I doubt it. That would be the thrilling new Arkham Horror Card Game by FFG!

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03 Aug 2016 07:34 #231284 by JEM
Replied by JEM on topic Let's Talk DreadBall
I'm not too keen on the teams that are in the new edition, and feel kind of irked that the others are going for full retail in a kickstarter. Kind of in a "wait until they make it and look then" mood with it.

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03 Aug 2016 07:57 #231287 by Mr. White
Replied by Mr. White on topic Let's Talk DreadBall
That's totally fair. The teams sold in this KS do include a 'captain' model that are not in the current retail sets.

I'm into the matsudon and yindij teams and have some cool ideas for paint schemes and my son is all about the Fox Sunday NFL Robots...so this 2e set works out for us.

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03 Aug 2016 08:03 #231288 by hotseatgames
Replied by hotseatgames on topic Let's Talk DreadBall
I'm turned off by Mantic's handling of the Deadzone kickstarter. The first version included stat cards for all the units, reducing the need to look things up. They did away with that for second edition, so you are constantly flipping through the book to see stats on units. They changed a lot of things before delivery, simply because they wanted to cut costs.

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03 Aug 2016 08:10 #231289 by Mr. White
Replied by Mr. White on topic Let's Talk DreadBall
Uh. I don't know anything about Deadzone, but from what I was told going into the DB2 campaign is that the KoW2 and Deadzone2 are the bees knees. A buddy of mine has all the Deadzone2 stuff and he loves it.

Again, I don't know how it compares to DZ1. Maybe there is a bigger shift there than what I expect between DB1 and DB2.

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03 Aug 2016 08:10 #231290 by drewcula
Replied by drewcula on topic Let's Talk DreadBall
Damnit! Jeff swept in, and took the only thread I could have possibly authored that began with "Let's talk about..."
Oh well.

As most F:ATties may know, and may be tired of being reminded, I'm a DreadBall fanatic. I blame Games Workshop and Risk: Legacy.
Games Workshop because they let Blood Bowl out to dry. Not that the legions of fans, and third party licenses, haven't kept the torch lit - but it's not the same. Games Workshop products are also in the top tier price range and my gaming group is a bunch of cheap pricks.
Risk: Legacy because the same group of cheap pricks wanted a progressive game to delve into after the area control masterpiece.

And then, out of nowhere, I ran into a Kickstarter from some company called Mantic. So on 9/23/12, I wrote a pitch to my gaming buddies. This is it:

"CORT,

Gentlemen, I have a proposal.
I'm going to make a pitch, and ask for money.
I need us to collectively agree, or bail, on this idea.

I want us to jointly pre-order a futuristic sports game that supports league play. $45 each.

The game is called Dreadball, and it's currently in the last week of a Kickstarter campaign. I've been closely following the campaign since it's inception, and have done an embarrassingly large amount of research over the past two weeks*. Before making a pitch to the gaming group, I had to convince myself. I am a hard customer when it comes to a game like Dreadball, especially when considering my past.

My past (preamble);
I am a Blood Bowl enthusiast. For those not aware, Blood Bowl is a fantasy American football/rugby table top sports game played with miniatures. Orcs, Elves, Dwarves... That kind of stuff. It's a Games Workshop release from 1988 and has seen three editions, a "Dungeon Bowl" variant, a living rulebook, two video games, and a card game spin off. With the exception of the 1st edition, I own them all. My heyday was in the mid-ninetites, but I've recently fallen back in love due in part to the card game and new video game iterations. The Blood Bowl board game is fucking awesome, but I've only been able to see it shine once. It was 1994. I played in a league for an entire summer. League play is where Blood Bowl really rocks as you develop your fictional Tolkein ass kicking players into goblin killers. League play continues to this day, with groups all over the world. I joined a league in Northern Virginia that's been together for twelve years, but I've never attended a match. They only meet on Fridays, and frankly - I'm not driving to NoVa on Friday nights.
However, there are problems with Blood Bowl. It is an old game that shows it 1990s design roots. Modifications have been made through the Living Rulebook (currently v.7), but there's no denying; it's a simple premise with a hell of a lot of nuances. Subsequently, the game can have a steep learning curve. The game is not actively supported by Games Workshop. They sell the same 3rd edition that I bought in 1993 (though they provide the Living Rulebook for free on their web site). They sell a Blood Bowl miniature line that has not changed in 18 years. The game is expensive. Even though I own four teams from the second edition, the models are crude and identical. I do own two teams from the third edition, and these models are nice with different sculpts for each position. Still, purchasing a new team from Games Workshop costs at least $60 for a dozen, and then you need to augment with minis that are $9-15 each. Third parties sell "fantasy football" miniatures, and they look cooler - but they're not cheaper. Perhaps the biggest problem with Blood Bowl - is the long play time. To accurately play, a single game take 2.5 hours. And while this shouldn't be a consideration - I'm really good at Blood Bowl. If we were to say, play a league - I would kick all of your nuts.

Our possible future;
I think Dreadball is a uniquely different game. In bullets!
Developed by former Games Workshop designers.
Matches play in 1/2 the time. Average 60 - 70 minutes.
Lower price point with a Kickstarter pledge.
Future sci-fi theme instead of Medieval fantasy theme. Steve could theoretically play robots.
Less American Football / Rugby, and more Rugby / Ice Hockey / American Gladiators' Powerball.
Supports League Play.
We could learn a new game from scratch, so I wouldn't immediately destroy you.
I also think Dreadball has some challenges. In bullets!
We are men.
I'd buy the damn thing myself if I hadn't blown my gaming budget for 2012. Also, if we invest together - we may be more committed to play on a "regular basis". By "regular basis", I'm completely cognizant that we are grown men with real life obligations. It's difficult for us to schedule one day a month for us to get together. I thought if we supported Dreadball, we could agree to play it quarterly. Six of us (maybe more?) could play side by side matches, and realistically get two matches played during one get together.
Dreadball is unpainted.
With my proposed Kickstarter pledge, we'd each own a team and then some. We could swap team factions and stuff, but regardless - the minis are unpainted. I'll go ahead and agree to paint our teams, but thats a big order and I'd need some time to do it. We may not be able to play with fully painted minis for a while down the road. Of course, you're welcome to paint them yourself. But I reserve the right to make fun of you.

Dreadball is a miniatures game.
With all miniature games, there's a chance for a money pit. I'm a big fan of all inclusive games that don't require extra bullshit to play. The extra bullshit in Dreadball is on the way, but it's not integral. Coaches, cheerleaders, prone players, and keeper/goalies will have their own sculpts, but we don't need them. The same was true for Blood Bowl. It's bling. Nice, but not necessary.

I think Dreadball is a safe investment. In bullets!
The basic rulebook has already been released.
The developers know full well that Dreadball is being compared to Blood Bowl. To waive off jaded fuckers like myself thinking it was a blatant rip off - they posted game demo videos and the basic rulebook. *Of course, I've watched them, and I've read the rules. I'm so out of control - I built a proxy pitch using Heroscape tiles and played with extra Battleball miniatures. Yes, I played with myself... Point is, the game works. It's fast, but also smart with lots of tactical options to be had.
If we don't like it, there's eBay.
While I don't think this will be the case, if we played Dreadball and decided it wasn't for us - we could sell it. Chances are good that we'd get our money back. If Zombicide is any indication, our Dreadball investment would be a fast sell because we'd own a lot of Kickstarter exclusives that make fanboys open their wallets.

Summary:
We chip in $45 (or, we could low ball it to $35 - 40)**. We support Dreadball on Kickstarter. We get a ton of shit. We try this game out! Or not. I'm only gonzo if we go in together. I'll consider this stupid long email and my two weeks of research as due diligence for my favorite hobby, and the guys that let me share it. Let me know how we feel. the Kickstarter campaign wraps up next weekend.

Here are the links:
www.dreadball.com/
www.kickstarter.com/projects/1744629938/...turistic-sports-game
www.boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/129731/d...turistic-sports-game
League Play stuff released so far - quirkworthy.com/2012/09/15/dreadball-design-notes-leagues/

Andrew
(** if we're interested, I'll detail our price breakdown. It starts with the 'Striker' Pledge level.)"

Yes yes yes. I know. I made several arguments to benefit my position. Regardless, it's now 8/3/16 and CORT is mid-way through our sixth season of DreadBall.
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03 Aug 2016 08:21 - 03 Aug 2016 08:41 #231292 by drewcula
Replied by drewcula on topic Let's Talk DreadBall
In regards to DB2, I'm biased because I've been tapped as an "alpha play tester." I'm under an NDA, but I'll tell any doubters this: DreadBall was a pretty damn good game right from the gate. DreadBall 2 will be refinement, not an overhaul. Power creep is often an inevitable aspect of any game system, and DB2's second edition is in part an effort to help balance some of the 25 (28? 29?) team's wonkiness. Also, a few years of DreadBall in the wild have revealed peculiar tactics and strategies not discovered in initial play testing. Those items are being addressed as well.

It's easy to see parallels between DB2, Dead Zone 2, and Kings of War 2. But here's the thing: DreadBall was solid game on release. KOW was okay. Dead Zone was not.
Last edit: 03 Aug 2016 08:41 by drewcula.
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03 Aug 2016 11:20 #231302 by hotseatgames
Replied by hotseatgames on topic Let's Talk DreadBall

Mr. White wrote: A buddy of mine has all the Deadzone2 stuff and he loves it.
.


Deadzone 2 IS cool. The game is fine. But what I took issue with was Mantic essentially "flipping the script" after the fact. During the campaign there was no mention of cards being dropped, solo play being dropped, etc. They also switched out minis that they had promised, after discovering they somehow didn't have them to fulfill. I don't even know if I didn't receive anything I was supposed to receive because what I got was a giant box of plastic and metal with essentially no guide to what I had. I haven't had the time to fully go through it. To date I've assembled and primed a few models and some buildings.

I didn't appreciate how they handled it, so that's my only warning.

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