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Let's Talk About Age of Sigmar

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15 Sep 2017 01:22 #254279 by Space Ghost
Yeah -- super excited for Death.

I need to start the purge of other games and block off an insane amount of time to paint. I am already way behind....between Sigmar and Blood Bowl, I'm booked until 2025

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15 Sep 2017 02:11 #254282 by Michael Barnes
Cry me a river.

Astra Militarum - about 25 percent complete
Primaris SM- about 50 percent but most primed
Death Guard- about 30 percent (soon to be like 10 percent with new releases)
Tyranids- 10 percent
Stormcast- was 75 percent, back to 50 with Blightwar
Tzeentch Demons- 90 percent, a miracle
Tzeentch Arcanites- 50 percent (Tzaangors...)
Sylvaneth- 75 percent (2 treelords!)
Skaven- 75 percent (6 Stormfiends)
High Elves- 25 percent
Death- 25 percent (but a small number anyway)
Seraphon- 10 percent, 90 percent on sprues (my great shame...)
Nurgle .5 percent (1 Lord of Plagues primed...)

And this is before figuring in every GW board games and terrain pieces...or Necromunda in November...but hey! Gorechosen and Lost Patrol are 100 percent complete!

Space Hulk...0 percent.

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15 Sep 2017 08:45 #254287 by Mr. White
I'm looking forward to the Deathrattle faction, but as an Old World Strigoi fan my heart is owned by the Flesh Eater Courts. I'm looking forward to putting a warband together, but it has to wait until I finish my Tzeentch, Nurgle, and Ironjawz.

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15 Sep 2017 23:14 #254335 by metalface13
Where the Sylvaneth at?

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17 Sep 2017 22:06 - 17 Sep 2017 22:07 #254380 by Mr. White
Firestorm looks incredible, but it's set in the Realm of Fire....none of my mats or terrain are set in the Realm of Fire.

Last edit: 17 Sep 2017 22:07 by Mr. White.

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17 Sep 2017 22:14 #254381 by Mr. White

metalface13 wrote: Where the Sylvaneth at?


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23 Sep 2017 15:29 #254666 by Vlad
Replied by Vlad on topic Let's Talk About Age of Sigmar
Since I got into 40K about 4 months ago, I barely played any AoS. Last week I played several games against the same opponent. And, it was a lot of fun. My rats got completely annihilated in the first one, and got a very narrow victory in the second. There was also lots more maneuvering than I remembered - perhaps because both skaven and seraphon have several movement options, and you don't get locked in the same place (like with Bloodbound).
Having said that, I still think about the new 40K edition as a refined AoS, and kind of wish that stuff that works better in 40K was retrofitted into AoS.

My main issue is how "to wound" roll is determined. In 40K, there's interaction between weapon's strength and target's toughness. And it is a very easy one. In AoS you have the fixed wounding ability of the weapon, which feels kinda artificial. I picture it a bit like the Hobbits movies, where characters hack through the air, and then some CGI orcs are added later. This is also the hardest "to fix" thing, so AoS is stuck with this until the next edition I guess.

The way charging and fighting works is infuriating. I cannot stand that the charging units don't attack first, like in 40K. It is very counter-intuitive, and leads to ridiculous situations where, as attacker, you sometimes prefer NOT to circle, flank or charge an enemy unit with multiple units.

Forget about the other two, what I miss most are the CPs and Stratagems. I always save my CPs for that assassin shot or the really important charge, or to allow a counter-attack from multiple charges. Now that part of my brain is inactive and hurting during a game of AoS.

Yet, none of these complaints are game-breakers. I had bloody good time. My opponent was also a kind of guy who loves fantasy, but doesn't care for sci-fi and big guns, so I can't imagine having that much fun playing 40K with him. And I also appreciated the more whimsical/cartoonish narrative of AoS games. We had dinosaurs shooting lasers (which never gets old), rats electrocuting themselves shortly after being rolled over by their own doomwheel, skinks chased by rat ogors all across the battlefield, skaven warlord boldly charging and then running away before the retaliation, meager clanrats bringing down massive dinosaurs (with lasers).

We were thinking about doing a skirmish campaign next time. Have anyone played it yet? I kinda feel that the recommended starter 25pts of renown gives very few options and will make the first couple of games pretty boring, any thoughts?
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23 Sep 2017 16:31 #254670 by Michael Barnes
I've found that I greatly prefer AOS in a Skirmish setting. It just feels better overall, and the scale seems to work better with smaller numbers of units on the board. I like that it makes the characters feel even more significant. It's also where you have wackiness like running the dudes from Gorechosen as a totally OP Warband or a lone Skaven Stormfiend just brutalizing a few Stormcast.

50 points is a good size for it. That will usually buy you a character or two and some varied units. I really like playing some of my Swifthawk dudes in Skirmish- Shadow Warriors in particular.

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29 Sep 2017 08:12 #254993 by Mr. White

Vlad wrote: The way charging and fighting works is infuriating. I cannot stand that the charging units don't attack first, like in 40K. It is very counter-intuitive, and leads to ridiculous situations where, as attacker, you sometimes prefer NOT to circle, flank or charge an enemy unit with multiple units.


Are you sure this is right? I thought the player who's turn it is attacks first...and you can only charge if it's your turn.

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29 Sep 2017 08:32 #254995 by ufe20
That's correct, but in the new edition of 40k, all units that charged attack first, THEN you switch to the AoS system where alternating units attack, starting with the active player. It really is the better system, and unlike some of the other differences between the games it's one I feel really should be added to AoS 2nd Edition, whenever that happens. Shooting into combat, SvT determining to Wound roll as opposed to a static to Wound roll etc I can chalk up to them being different games but the 40k charge rules just feel better. Would require a re balancing of points though, so I probably won't just add the rule to my games.

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29 Sep 2017 08:38 - 29 Sep 2017 09:01 #254996 by Mr. White
Eh...We've always played AoS where the player whose turn it is picks a unit to attack with (pretty much always charging units before non charging ones) then the opponent attacks with their units in the same conflict...it's never been an issue.

I suppose the rules aren't explicitly stated in this manner, but it makes sense, and doesn't seem to break anything at all as this 'could' be an order two opponents select the order of engagements in a combat round. We simply do it every time.

Maybe I'm still missing something....

As far as wounding in AoS, I like it fine as is. This isn't a historical simulation. We're rolling dice with fantasy creatures and having a good time. So long as all players understand the rules, the simplification is good.

The only thing I would look at changing is some of the Reknown costs in the Skirmish game. GW seemed to have used a blanket formula for all the models, but if summoning is done away with those that can summon or be summon probably need to come in at a little less points since their abilities are nerfed.
Last edit: 29 Sep 2017 09:01 by Mr. White.

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29 Sep 2017 09:14 #255001 by ufe20

Mr. White wrote: Eh...We've always played AoS where the player whose turn it is picks a unit to attack with (pretty much always charging units before non charging ones) then the opponent attacks with their units in the same conflict...it's never been an issue.


So the way I've been playing AoS, say we have two 1v1 fights going, A and B. If, on your turn, you decide to attack with your unit in fight A, when it comes my turn to decide which unit to attack with, I'm going to chose my unit in fight B since my unit in fight A is attacking last either way.

So in effect, combat resolution can get pretty messy in AoS since it's constantly hopping around the board. It also means that if you charged this turn with your units in both fight A and fight B, you can only guarantee that one gets to attack first.

40k is different though. Combat resolution is essentially in 2 phases, with chargers all attacking in phase 1, then reverting to AoS system in phase 2.
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29 Sep 2017 09:24 - 29 Sep 2017 09:30 #255002 by Mr. White
I see.

I guess I've got too many years of playing games where we move around the board resolving one combat at a time with the active player choosing the order, leading with charging units.

I can see how playing at the LGS would lend players to opt the order like you stated.

However, the 4page AoS rules are filled with language to tailor the game how you and your opponent see fit...I'd just shove some of that philosophy in here and clarify charging before the game.

In a way I wish I had gotten in on the game pre-points...all open play. I get bored of balance/mechanics discussions...but even I'm not immune when points are presented (See: my Skirmish comment above).
Last edit: 29 Sep 2017 09:30 by Mr. White.

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29 Sep 2017 11:19 #255016 by GorillaGrody

Mr. White wrote:
In a way I wish I had gotten in on the game pre-points...all open play. I get bored of balance/mechanics discussions...but even I'm not immune when points are presented.


This, right here. I spent a really enjoyable summer getting to know a variety of skirmish-to-mid-size miniature games with a good friend of mine and my wife, starting back in March with Shadow War. My conclusions:

1) Oh man, did we spend a bunch of money.
2) After lots of experimentation with all things Games Workshop, homebrewed stuff, Frostgrave, a weird foray into Supersystem and other online stuff we found, and Infinity, we have come away with a pretty good idea of what we like.
3) We like a fairly meaty skirmish, and while we don't love complex and time-consuming resolutions, we still want a measure of control to the raw dicerolling. This eliminated Frostgrave (those raw d20 rolls just killed it for me) and Shadow War ("are you pinned? are you hit? are we in 1995?"). We've come away with a real love of Infinity for this level of play. Additionally, we hacked together a pretty good approximation of Sigmar official Skirmish rules and Hinterlands, and am excited to see what the Hinterlands guy comes up with next. For the record, my friend likes Infinity better, while I slightly prefer our Hinterlands mashup.
4) We are not competitive Army-level players at all. We were initially over the moon about 8th edition 40k, but a few things about it seemed a bit gamey, like the rush to charge to get in a couple extra hits before your opponent. We found ourselves asking, "well, these are clearly based on Sigmar rules, so how did those handle it?" In every case, we preferred the Sigmar way of handling things.
5) Above all, I like that there's no fiddling with builds in Sigmar. Each unit has a single stat line that tells you what he does and how he saves, with a few interesting variants. I'm sure the cross-referencing that happens in 8th edition is blessedly toned down from previous editions, but for us, it was still too much, and turned us away from ever playing with points.
6)There are a lot of fun, squelchy, glowy bits of flavor text woven into the Sigmar rules, which I assume 40k players wouldn't have the patience for. And I just like the models better. They're practically hallucinogenic, and a pleasure to paint. I find 40k models to be a variant on, "here's a guy with red space armor, here's a guy with black space armor, here's a race of skinny people, etc."
7) We don't care about the historical fluff at all, in either case. It all seems really tedious, compared to the stories written into the miniatures themselves.
8) Finally, for someone unaccustomed to the rules back-and-forthing which led these editions to intitute a 2d6 charge, I find the idea of a 4" movement character doing a 2d6 charge really dumb. Why is this a thing? Can't there be some other thing?
9) So, anyone want to buy a shit-ton of scattered 40k stuff, assembled and half-painted, at a reasonable cost? Seriously, how does one unload this stuff? It seems the market for this is pretty weak, and lots of people prefer buying stuff on the sprue in order to customize.

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29 Sep 2017 11:48 #255022 by Michael Barnes
What Tyranid/AM stuff are you unloading?

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