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Michael Barnes
August 18, 2022
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Godtear Beats the Odds - Review

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The Split - Review

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Necromunda: Underhive

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13 Aug 2017 07:18 - 13 Aug 2017 07:37 #252408 by celticgriffon
Just heard news re Necro:Underhive on warhammer community.. gangs will be getting multipart kits. Initial relaunch (ie does this infer a boxed set??) will include goliaths and escher... the models look great.

Don't really know much more than this at the moment. I really thought SWA was going to be the "full relaunch" tbh.

I just hope they don't mess with the scale of the existing figs but if I was to place any bet that would be it.
Last edit: 13 Aug 2017 07:37 by celticgriffon.

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13 Aug 2017 08:08 - 13 Aug 2017 08:10 #252409 by celticgriffon
Replied by celticgriffon on topic Necromunda: Underhive
Unofficial updates:

based on 8th ed rules
full campaign / experience system
4 gangs are ready
it will not be a u go / i go system
juves can bottle on their own
leaders and heavies can activate together (similar to frostgrave)

cheers!
Last edit: 13 Aug 2017 08:10 by celticgriffon.
The following user(s) said Thank You: hotseatgames, DukeofChutney, Hadik

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13 Aug 2017 11:00 #252415 by hotseatgames
Replied by hotseatgames on topic Necromunda: Underhive
Will this work with SW:A or is it totally separate?

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13 Aug 2017 11:16 - 13 Aug 2017 11:21 #252416 by Michael Barnes
It will work with SW:A by joining with 8th edition in shoveling dirt onto its grave.

It is a totally different system it sounds like, with action point activations. I doubt SW KTs will have rules- they seem to be pushing this as featuring the original gangers. 40k KTs would be way overpowered on scale.

It can use the SW:A terrain, but you can use any so that's kind of irrelevant.

The models they've shown are SHIT HOT. Amazing stuff.

Also...a Heresy-era reboot of Battlefleet Gothic is coming...Says a different scale, I wonder if they are going X-Wing or to a smaller, more epic scale.
Last edit: 13 Aug 2017 11:21 by Michael Barnes.

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13 Aug 2017 11:32 #252417 by hotseatgames
Replied by hotseatgames on topic Necromunda: Underhive
I feel like they really pulled a fast one on me with SW:A; touting it as the next big thing, and I got on board. Then it was quickly shoved under the carpet.

That said, I haven't even scratched the surface of what was released. I still think it's annoying.

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13 Aug 2017 12:07 #252419 by Michael Barnes
Yeah, I kind of think that SWA was in retrospect a badly planned and coordinated product. And the whole limited nature of if that pissed everybody off makes more sense now. It was always going to be a one-off release, really intended more as a bundle for the Sector Mechanicus terrain than anything else. It also feels like a stopgap between the death throes of 7th and the emergence of 8th.

In places I shop/play, there is zero interest in SWA at this point. 8th obliterated it. And now Necromunda looks like it will completely replace it as far as 40k skirmish goes.

I don't think it's a total loss- I had a blast playing SWA, also collecting the KTs, outfitting them, and painting them up. The terrain is awesome. And it was cool to go back to 2nd edition, even if just for the Spring of 2017.

I'm probably going to liquidate a few of my KTs, just keep the ones I like a lot (my beloved IG) or that I may roll into a larger 8th force.

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13 Aug 2017 13:22 #252424 by celticgriffon
Replied by celticgriffon on topic Necromunda: Underhive
The timing on this is definitely donkey balls.

If there might be a silver lining there will be two rulesets (ie SWA using 2nd ed 40k / necromunda and the new set using 8th ed 40k). One will be the cream in terms of actual gameplay. SW might still be the way to go... After running a BB season using the latest GW ruleset I am ready to go back to LRB 6.0. It was a much better campaign environment for how my league is structured.

There should also be an influx of players. Plastic multi-kit models for necro are long overdue.

But in reality SW is now dead and that was a complete dick move by GW. And the scale creep (which is a given) completely pisses me off as well (same as it did for BB).

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13 Aug 2017 14:27 #252425 by Vlad
Replied by Vlad on topic Necromunda: Underhive
This is absolutely ridiculous.
So, the other day, a friend and I were about to play SW. And then we realized we could play a game of 40K with 20 PL instead, so we did that. He said, apologetically: "I still like Shadow Wars". I felt kinda guilty, too, I've been gushing about SW for months, and then it was suddenly and completely replaced by 40K. I'm too old to change my tastes just like that, or to abandon the new thing in favor of the new-new thing.
On the positive side, SW was my gateway into 40K. The rules are so easy to grasp if you have SW experience, they're just easier and less fiddly. And I absolutely love the dynamic objectives of 40K as opposed to more static missions of SW and AoS. And then, the backbone of my (now at 1500pts) IG army are veterans of Shadow Wars. They are named. I cheer when sniper Hauer scores a hit, and feel for Sergeant Kurtwood when he fails a morale test for his squad. And Commissar Katz is as unlucky in his rolls in 40K as he was in Armageddon (I don't think he ever managed to actually injure anyone in over a dozen games). I feel there's a narrative to these dudes.
Just to be clear. I had fun with SW and now having even more fun with 40K. I still don't feel I need to go into GW-rehab. Of course, this new Necromunda might change that. Those models look too good to pass on them.

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13 Aug 2017 14:45 #252426 by Michael Barnes
Oh I certainly don't regret SW at all! It is still a great game- it's just not current. And like you said, you can play a 20pt 40k game in 8th in less time and it plays much smoother. I don't think it would be too hard to just port the campaign system over if you really wanted to.

The scale creep is a bigger (heh) issue that I think people are sort of nervous/afraid of talking about. The new Primaris and DG stuff makes old models- especially pre-2014 stuff- look like a joke. I built a Helbrute and put it next to the Redemptor...it just looks sad.

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13 Aug 2017 15:29 #252427 by celticgriffon
Replied by celticgriffon on topic Necromunda: Underhive
Built in obsolescence and corporate greed scale creep is starting to grind me wrong GW.. here we fucking go again.

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13 Aug 2017 15:40 #252428 by Vlad
Replied by Vlad on topic Necromunda: Underhive
Yep, I played against a Hellbrute, deathguard probes and marines, and my brain had trouble assimilating that the Hellbrute was slower and packed more punch, because of how tiny it looked in comparison to the other models. And if those gangers, who are weaker than your IG grunt, look twice as big as an old space marine, that's an issue.

And I am with you on compatibility between new Necromunda and SW. The weakest Kill Team dude is an elite compared to gangers.

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13 Aug 2017 15:46 #252429 by Vlad
Replied by Vlad on topic Necromunda: Underhive

celticgriffon wrote: Built in obsolescence and corporate greed scale creep is starting to grind me wrong GW.. here we fucking go again.


I don't think that the scale creep is an issue of corporate greed, it is more of an artistic choice in my opinion. The new models are way more detailed and more fun to paint than the old ones. And, honestly, the old space marines do look somewhat too small for the super-warriors they're supposed to represent (although now it looks like they're scaling up everything, which is not cool).

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13 Aug 2017 18:11 - 13 Aug 2017 18:12 #252430 by Michael Barnes
I don't think it's a greed issue either. There is more to lose by upscaling things given the existing player base that has as many as three decades worth of models. If it were a pure greed move, they'd just come out and say "heroic scale is now this, old figures in the Old scale are not compatible". They are being very careful about that. Witness the SM codex- it really is pushing us toward Primaris, but they still have all the squatty old models next to them in the pics...photographed in such a way that you can't really see the disparity. Then there is the text, which constantly reassures you that SMs field Primaris with old timey units.

It's really more of a way to lay the groundwork for the future, and you'd better bet that al future releases will match up with Primaris/DG size. It's also a competitive move- the old fashioned sculpts are simply outclassed by Infinty, for example. GW needs to keep up with and surpass that standard.

And the figures are flat out better. Look at the Reivers versus any given squad of old marines. Exciting, dynamic poses. Lots of variation. More fun and interesting to paint.

But the biggest scale issue remains- how do 10 marines fit into a Rhino?
Last edit: 13 Aug 2017 18:12 by Michael Barnes.

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13 Aug 2017 21:03 - 13 Aug 2017 21:05 #252434 by Sevej
Replied by Sevej on topic Necromunda: Underhive
Not really (to both sides).

I'm sure a significant portion on why the new marines are released is because of the market is hyper-saturated with the old marines. It creates a strange conundrum. Space marine is their flagship, but they can't sell it as much as they want, simply because everyone's had it.

Now, the new minis are cool as heck, but I have my reservations against them (no small part due to me 15 marines short of an actual battle company). First is that they have little variations in chest plate and helmet. I understand that from background perspective, but I've been spoiled by the oldmarines variations. A lot of the goodness of the new sculpt comes from its size, but I have strong feelings that they are not using it as best as they can. The oldminares were small, but they pack a punch. Primaris is like having a bigger canvas with the same amount detail packed into a smaller canvas. Finally, not sure if anyone's realizing it, the basic aesthetic of the new Primaris diverges *a lot* from the oldmarines'. More curves, slanted angles & plates... My least favorite model from the Primaris range is the Redemptor, which has droopy shoulder, pregnant belly and the fact that they're less top-heavy than the oldnought. And if you check that new tank... I mean, that weapons list look like a shopping list!

I mean, some of the 40k models look stupid. The first time I look at Dreadnought and Terminator... rectangular, top heavy box with no knees, and walking refrigerator with arms growing from their ears. But they also give *impression*, long lasting one. The new model looks fucking awesome, no argument there. But they're also more streamlined, and lost some of those 40k appeal (the last thing this happen for me is the newer chaos vehicles/monster--heldrake/fiends--and vs their old ones).

Last thing is how they are all armed the same way in a squad. This is a major loss to me. I like how different squads look, how individual they are, and that's a major draw to me.

Now if that rumored new orks are also upscaled, I'll be majorly pissed as I'm starting to collect orks and I really love the current figures.

On the other hand, I'm *ready* to move to Primaris as soon as they show me the Primaris Terminator equivalent. The Gravis shit just doesn't cut it. You look at a Gravis, you start to see differences. You see a Terminator, you say "oh that's one tough son of a bitch".

It's also a competitive move- the old fashioned sculpts are simply outclassed by Infinty, for example. GW needs to keep up with and surpass that standard.

This is really a non-issue. Infinity, sure, good sculpt. But they are monopose, with no options, and they don't even have a lot of the minis! Most of the models are a pain to paint thanks to their spindly details. 40k manages to create models that look good, relatively easy to paint, have good silhouette (try to get a newcomer differentiate between factions in Infinity!), and allows me to inject a lot of personality with much less hassle.
Last edit: 13 Aug 2017 21:05 by Sevej.

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14 Aug 2017 00:02 #252436 by Hadik
Replied by Hadik on topic Necromunda: Underhive
SW has been fun. I'm disappointed that the game isn't going to get additional support moving forward. We've got five different Kill Teams built with 3 painted and 2 more on the painting block. No reason we can't play, but the new shiny Necromunda will beckon... as will 8th ed.

Question - the one thing that people seem to think isn't quite right with 8th is the cover rules (or lack thereof). Having played SW, cover and hiding is a critical part of the game. If Necromunda is based on 8th, how do you imagine they'll handle it?

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